tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post5090434266435751865..comments2024-03-07T11:40:13.694-07:00Comments on To The Remnant: Feeling, and Fooling, the SpiritAdrian Larsenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comBlogger81125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-19508383379477533322018-07-06T09:55:49.517-06:002018-07-06T09:55:49.517-06:00Goosebumps often make the hairs stand on end.
Job ...Goosebumps often make the hairs stand on end.<br />Job 4<br />12 <br />“A word was secretly brought to me,<br /> my ears caught a whisper of it.<br />13 <br />Amid disquieting dreams in the night,<br /> when deep sleep falls on people,<br />14 <br />fear and trembling seized me<br /> and made all my bones shake.<br />15 <br />A spirit glided past my face,<br /> and the hair on my body stood on end.<br />16 <br />It stopped,<br /> but I could not tell what it was.<br />A form stood before my eyes,<br /> and I heard a hushed voice:<br />17 <br />‘Can a mortal be more righteous than God?<br /> Can even a strong man be more pure than his Maker?<br />18 <br />If God places no trust in his servants,<br /> if he charges his angels with error,<br />19 <br />how much more those who live in houses of clay,<br /> whose foundations are in the dust,<br /> who are crushed more readily than a moth!<br />20 <br />Between dawn and dusk they are broken to pieces;<br /> unnoticed, they perish forever.<br />21 <br />Are not the cords of their tent pulled up,<br /> so that they die without wisdom?’Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-11399403311135422302018-05-28T14:11:52.922-06:002018-05-28T14:11:52.922-06:00I learned these truths decades ago, not long after...I learned these truths decades ago, not long after joining the LDS Church 40 plus years ago. Like Denver Snuffer I thought all members saw and felt the Spirit and had revelations and gained insight and gifts of the Spirit like I did. But I slowly learned in not too many years that was not true. The same kind of realization I had decades ago, about those I grew up with in a Gentle like world and family. <br /><br />I find the Title; feeling and fooling the Spirit a bit odd,, there is not fooling the Spirit, but we can fool ourselves into thinking we are feeling the Spirit; when you have never really felt it, to know what it should feel like. I felt it since my childhood. I was born and wired with it; and my ADD, Hight IQ and maybe Aspergers lend itself to not being attached and how to relate emotionally; mostly just intellectually and Spiritually. It is hard most of the time living in an emotionally based thinking society or world when you are not wired like that. <br /><br />Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10632785288526440644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-64626619798827952552016-10-14T14:31:38.434-06:002016-10-14T14:31:38.434-06:00Continued...
5) If we have a physical reaction in...Continued...<br /><br />5) If we have a physical reaction in our bodies but are aware of no intelligence enlightening us, then we should ask what value/ what truth we received. If no truth or enlightenment was received, but we did experience goosebumps, it may be possible that we felt an imitation from Satan. As you said, “When there has been nothing communicated, but we still "feel" the spirit, we may be sure we are indeed feeling "a" spirit, but it might not be from God. It might merely be our own emotions, or it may be something far more sinister, hoping to deceive us.”<br /><br />6) It seems important to teach that we don’t want people DISCOUNTING their physiological responses, when THAT may be the very method God desires to get our attention?! That’s what I want to articulate here.<br /> <br />7) Isn’t it possible that God may choose to get our attention by causing a physical reaction in our bodies? A great example would be the baptism of fire, after all, signs do follow faith and sacrifice. Another great example would be God impressing upon us a truth He just communicated. The Spirit or a wave of light is sent to our spirit and the effect of goosebumps occurs. There’s nothing evil about getting goosebumps. But w/o pure intelligence accompanying the goosebumps, there COULD be deception brewing from Satan.<br /><br />8) So I think it’s fair and necessary to point out and warn that Satan can and does imitate and counterfeit those physiological responses. So the physical reactions we have should never be trusted by themselves. They must at the very least be linked to an idea received to our mind/heart. However, I can tell you that very often I personally receive such physiological responses when thinking a true thought. But your point is that it’s the thought that is of value. The communicated IDEA is what is of lasting value, and not the goosebumps. But even then, there IS value in a physiological response because one would remember that specific “spiritual” experience if it was strong enough. Your valuable point is that it’s only truly MEANINGFUL if you learned a truth at the same time. OTHERWISE, it could be a random, false spirit from Satan causing you to feel something with the intent to deceive. <br /><br />9) Which gets to the final point – the way to judge. The question becomes, “Does a certain received idea persuade and entice one to believe in Christ or to deny Him?” Moroni 7. <br /><br />In summary, since as you say “the Holy Ghost does produce physical signs,” I’m not convinced it’s wrong to say, “I felt the Holy Ghost just now.” Nephi used the word “feel” as I quoted above, and the Lord did too in DC 9. I kind of got sidetracked into debating about the semantics of the word choice of “is FEELING wrong”, but the absolutely critical question to always ask is, “What if anything did I learn at the time of feeling something I think was the Spirit?” <br /><br />Truth or intelligence must accompany a physical sign and one thing to realize that has not been said is that the Holy Spirit may speak to us great truths and THERE BE NO ACCOMPANYING PHYSICAL SIGN WHATSOEVER! If the still small voice is communicating like this all the time, and we’re not “feeling” a physical response, then perhaps we are missing out on vast treasures of revelation on a regular basis! This is one major takeaway for me. <br /><br />Do you disagree with anything I wrote above, Adrian? <br />Underdognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-11024320948415311472016-10-14T14:31:03.911-06:002016-10-14T14:31:03.911-06:00You said, “While the Holy Ghost does produce physi...You said, “While the Holy Ghost does produce physical signs, the scriptures DO NOT teach us to identify the Holy Ghost by what we refer to as "feeling the Spirit.” And, “When knowledge is communicated by the Holy Ghost, there may indeed be an emotional response, as well as physical responses.”<br /><br />You also said, “There is NO scripture that tells us to identify the Holy Ghost by any of these feelings,” and “ALL the feelings above are products of emotion, sentimentality, and normal physiological responses to thought processes.”<br /><br />In the interest to gain clarity and understand a topic that admittedly relies on revelation to understand, I have a few points and/or questions:<br /><br />1) You said, “There is NO scripture that tells us to identify the Holy Ghost by any of these feelings.” But Nephi famously chastised his brothers in 1 Nephi 17 by telling them they “were past feeling, that [they] could not feel his words…” which were “spoken unto [them] in a still small voice.” So isn’t it clear that it’s 100% legitimate to include “feeling” the spirit as part of the discernment process? Even Mormon observed the wicked Nephites were not only “without principle,” but they were “past feeling” in Moroni 9:20. DC 9 famously talks about “feeling” that an answer given to your mind “is right. But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings…” So maybe it is appropriate to use the phrase “feeling the Spirit”? <br /> <br />2) Is there a scripture anywhere that teaches us to NOT identify the Spirit by feeling vs. it being more intellectual in discernment? I’m not aware of any.<br /><br />3) If feelings are “normal physiological responses to thought processes,” as you say, then you must also be saying it’s normal and natural that we often DO experience physiological responses (goosebumps, chills, etc.) when the Holy Spirit communicates pure intelligence to our mind/heart/spirit.<br /><br />4) It seems to me that the real value of your teaching on the Holy Ghost is that we should not just MINDLESSLY believe a physiological response is from God! That is an extremely valuable contribution to those who seek to understand revelation from God. We must rather MINDFULLY be aware of ideas/thoughts/intelligence being communicated to us at the time of the physiological response. Or as you taught, “So the first question to ask when someone has "felt the Spirit" is what intelligence was communicated? What revelation was received? What new knowledge was given? What understanding exists that was lacking before? If none was given, this was not the Lord's Spirit.”<br /><br />Underdognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-70048910463299303392016-10-14T13:12:02.701-06:002016-10-14T13:12:02.701-06:00I concede the first litmus test of Recieving revel...I concede the first litmus test of Recieving revelation must be whether learning occurs; I also believe we must be honest enough to test against scriptural truths, and whether it encourages faith in Christ (mor 7:16-19).<br /><br />I agree emotion is confused for revelation far too often, and that our own voices may constitute revelation (I like Denver's account in TSC during his conversion about an internal dialogue in his head, when he wondered if God existed, and the thought came 'who do you think you've been talking to?'). <br /><br />However I would caution against the implication interacting with the divine is necessarily a dry cerebral process. It may have little inherent emotive content such as the voice that sounds like our own, but an emotive component may be occur too, taking into account individual spiritual learning styles and varying circumstances. I like Nephi's statement to his brothers where he says 'you were past feeling that you could not *feel* his words' (1 Ne 17:45). If there is an associated feeling, the experience should not be dismissed out of hand solely due to that. And yes, D&C 6:23 suggests a cerebral process since it states 'to your mind', but I submit the peace is not merely mental-- it can be soul-filling. Else why would Christ say 'my peace I give unto you, not as the world giveth...". And at the end of the day, the Holy Ghost in addition to being a revelator is of course the first comforter. doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02592825298396267179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-15719528501494750602016-10-03T01:30:46.363-06:002016-10-03T01:30:46.363-06:00just going to toss this out there and answer the q...just going to toss this out there and answer the question<br /><br />God can speak to you any which way. but speaking of the mind...God can speak to your mind as your own voice as previously described and talk back to you. you can converse with this voice. God knows your heart and nothing is hidden from Him<br /><br />you can counterfit this yourself by talking to yourself in your own mind and presuming that it is God. This is called talking to yourself.<br /><br />Satan....He too can talk to your mind in the exact same way as God with one vital difference. He cannot read your mind and thus you cannot converse with him back and forth...HOWEVER Satan can make a good educated guess as to what you are thinking about. He is not stupid. He can also bombard you with enough thoughts, read your brainwaves and continue to make a good educated guess as to what you are pondering on or even get you to think outloud.<br /><br />furthermore....Satan can and does answer prayers first. there is no written rule that God will answer the prayer first. The rule is only that God will hear all prayers and if it is a good righteous prayer He'll answer it. there is no He'll do it instantly and/or first rule.<br /><br />Satan remember will deceive some of the very elect. Satan will even claim to be the Only Begotten Son(See Moses chapter 1 i think it is). <br /><br />so Satan has some high level deception. He will try very well to speak to your mind. one way of learning which voice is his verse God would be to see how long you can talk to it back and forth in your mind.<br /><br />but Satan does very much speak to your mind like God.<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02488870290461231561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-45986547961105528912016-10-03T00:35:22.346-06:002016-10-03T00:35:22.346-06:00I havent finished reading this, and I only got her...I havent finished reading this, and I only got here because of the link on your newest post i got in my email today but i just want to say <br /><br />"If Satan can prevent you from recognizing and receiving the Holy Ghost, he has won. Period."<br /><br />those are some profound words. <br /><br />words of wisdom. poster that. slogan that.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02488870290461231561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-26348500502245784112016-10-01T14:17:07.222-06:002016-10-01T14:17:07.222-06:00Anonymous,
I cannot deny that I was wrought upon ...Anonymous,<br /><br />I cannot deny that I was wrought upon by the power of God when I said "I no longer doubt the BoM is true". <br /><br />I feel like I'd be in danger of not being forgiven in this life or the world to come if I ever deny that witness. <br /><br />Furthermore, judging by the standard Mormon gave in Moroni 7, the BoM convincingly persuades and entices to believe in Christ throughout its pages. <br /><br />I doubt you've had any experience with God as is indicated by your lack of faith. <br /><br />Remember, you reject Christ when you reject the messengers He sends. <br /><br />You cannot be of two minds. <br /><br />Good luck on your quest to understand the things of God.Underdognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-651729735813574422016-10-01T13:42:28.578-06:002016-10-01T13:42:28.578-06:00Underdog,
I do believe in Christ, and he taught ...Underdog, <br /><br />I do believe in Christ, and he taught us to test any self proclaimed prophet to see if they really preach and keep all of His exact commandments, or if instead they preach their own doctrines and commandments and act contrary to Christ's. <br /><br />Though the BoM may have many wonderful wise truths and useful messages in it, I believe it also teaches things that are contrary to Christ's teachings, things true prophets would not do, say, write, publish or believe in. <br /><br />I believe Joseph had alot of help in compiling the BoM, which I believe is more and more obvious the more you look into it, especially if you are open to truth even if it not what you thought, but many aren't. <br /><br />None of us will be judged by the BoM, anymore than by any other book written by fallible & very imperfect men, be it half true to not. Why would I believe that? Just because someone claimed it? Christ never taught that. <br /><br />And we judge ourselves in this and the next life, by how well we kept the commandments of Jesus Christ, not the commandments of men like Joseph Smith or BY, who did not appear to keep many, if any, of the commandments of Christ. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-38118540135222165782016-10-01T11:59:14.893-06:002016-10-01T11:59:14.893-06:00Anonymous, it's truly sad that you reject so m...Anonymous, it's truly sad that you reject so many true prophets. <br /><br />You talk like you're a believer in Christ but don't you know when you reject those whom God sends that you reject Christ?<br /><br />Furthermore, how do you explain the origins of the BoM? Satan inspired Joseph? What say you about the BoM, for by it you shall be judged.Underdognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-72914915553234390162016-10-01T11:14:00.877-06:002016-10-01T11:14:00.877-06:00'The Spirit' (let alone emotions) has neve...'The Spirit' (let alone emotions) has never been a way to discern truth over falsehoods, though (the Adversary wants us to think it is) for mortals cannot tell if they are feeling the 'right' spirit or the 'wrong' spirit, or even thoughts from their own mind. <br /><br />Millions in countless different religions are sure they are feeling 'the Spirit' confirming their beliefs, religion and experiences. Mortals also can't determine if a dream, visitation, vision or appearance of a divine being such as Christ or God is really the real deal or not, for we have nothing to compare it too and could easily be deceived by a false angel or the Adversary to make us think they are Christ, or God, no matter how good or loving we feel or we think the being is. <br /><br />I believe people underestimate the Adversary's ability to make us feel really wonderful, loved, inspired, at peace and all warm & fuzzy. The Adversary can also teach us alot of mostly wonderful insightful rare truths that resonate with us, to make us think he's the real deal, but he slips in just a few falsehoods most don't catch, to gently lead us astray. <br /><br />I believe this is happening alot as many people are being deceived by false Christ's appearing to them, especially since they come away believing or practicing things contrary to what the real Christ taught, like Joseph Smith did. <br /><br />For the real Christ taught us exactly how to discern if our revelation, inspiration is coming from the 'right' Spirit or not or if a 'spiritual personage' is really 'God/Christ or 'of God' or not. By simply comparing the ideas being taught by them, to the teachings that Christ taught in the New Testament Gospels. If it differs or is contradictory then we know for sure it or they are wrong and false. <br /><br />It's as easy as 2 + 2. But few seem to do this because it seems they either haven't studied Christ's words enough to use them to discern truth over error, or they like the falsehoods they are being told by such a being or Spirit, so they want to believe it's true, whether it is or not. <br /><br />When we use Christ's method of 'trying or testing the Spirits' and testing so called 'prophets' or beings that may appear to us', we can easily tell if they are preaching Christ's exact teachings or not. <br /><br />Christ knew that all mortals can be easily deceived by false revelation from false spirits or false visitations by false Christs or angels, and so he gave us this simple way to discern if what they convey is right or not. <br /><br />The bottom line is, we can feel tons of love, peace and joy (or what we think is love, peace and joy) hearing or doing really wrong things, especially if such things play to our natural man desires. <br /><br />And we also can feel really bad, fearful, sad and uncomfortable about really true things, especially if we don't want to repent or have to live them. Like the rich man who went away sorrowful because he didn't like the truths Christ was saying. <br /><br />Christ also taught that the way to tell true prophets from false ones is again, not only by what they 'say', but mostly by what they 'do', if they keep all his commandments or not, for that is the true test of any of his true disciples, they must keep all his commandments, which are simple and few but easily discernable. <br /><br />And unfortunately using this method of discernment shows that neither Joseph Smith or any LDS leader has been a true prophet, for they have preached and practiced contrary to the teachings of Christ, as have most of the so called prophets even in the Bible, and as do most all of those who claim to be 'followers of Him'. <br /><br />As Christ taught, his true followers will be very few, though most people will feel they are such. For most everyone feels they are right and righteous even when they are doing very wrong things, that's just the nature of man. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-45640541264460364742016-03-02T14:40:04.751-07:002016-03-02T14:40:04.751-07:00Yes, I ditched the formal speech as well. And I ke...Yes, I ditched the formal speech as well. And I keep a note pad handy. He speaks in plain humility as one man speaks to another. Way to go, underdog!Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-76057920367779853222016-03-02T13:01:36.933-07:002016-03-02T13:01:36.933-07:00Thank you, Adrian. With my new-found prayer unders...Thank you, Adrian. With my new-found prayer understanding, I'm now having actual conversations with the still, small voice inside my head. Praying is now very interactive. NO LONGER is it a monologue! Perhaps that's why I've strayed from personal prayer as the years have gone by. After all, if God isn't interacting with me, then prayer gets kind of boring and almost like, "what's the point?" I've continued to pray regularly, but the QUALITY of my prayers has suffered greatly.<br /><br />Now, thanks to your help, I am having real conversations. <br /><br />I'm experimenting, but it feels to me a little too stiff or formal to use "Thee" or "Thou", and to speak with Father the way He speaks to me, in a more familial or intimate manner. The honorific words I've been taught in the Church seem to create distance and formality and seem a bit unnatural. Maybe I'm overthinking this...<br /><br />What do you think? <br /><br />Lastly, I think I should have a note pad nearby when I pray because I'm asking questions and getting answers! However, I did ask him many doctrinal questions which are significant and may be considered a mystery, which we are commanded to seek to know.<br /><br />When I asked, unlike the quick responses I was getting when it pertained to my life personally, I got silence or a non answer, and my inner voice said, "Do you really think it's as easy as simply asking me? You must invest some time and effort and then come back to me," reminding me of DC 9:7-8. <br /><br />Thank you again for taking the time to post your remarkable insights on this blog. You are making a difference.Underdognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-59519788211857578992016-03-01T11:13:53.756-07:002016-03-01T11:13:53.756-07:00Interesting points, Underdog. I agree with you, I ...Interesting points, Underdog. I agree with you, I don't believe Satan speaks actual words to our thoughts, but rather enticements, feelings, and ideas, as well as emotions. <br /><br />As for the feelings you felt this morning, we often feel emotional and even physical manifestations as a result of the knowledge we gain. Just as you might have an emotional reaction to the police calling and telling you your missing child was just found safe. That knowledge will bring a flood of emotions. But it was the knowledge that was the revelation. <br /><br />Expressing gratitude for knowledge gained, and realizing it came from God, can be a very emotionally overwhelming experience. <br /><br />So, the key is to focus on the knowledge and enlightenment that brought the response, rather than merely the response itself. Because responses can be contrived, as you know. (See HeartSell.)Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-19533045468485799502016-03-01T10:42:56.500-07:002016-03-01T10:42:56.500-07:00Thanks Adrian. So you're saying from your expe...Thanks Adrian. So you're saying from your experience that He speaks first and immediately. I'll remember that. <br /><br />Am I way out in left field with the idea that if we are praying to Heavenly Father in the name of Christ, that Satan has some limits, like...perhaps he IS bound from interfering by speaking to us? For example, your comment seems to agree that Satan is bound at least in initially responding. <br /><br />I wonder if he is bound even more than that? I wonder if he can interject himself at all in a conversation with Heavenly Father, aside from sending emotions? He temporarily overcame Joseph in the grove. Joseph has started his prayer. But rather than TALK to Joseph, Satan attacked him, and it was more like a quasi physical attack, as Joseph testified that his tongue was bound by an actual being from the unseen world.<br /><br />I can't think of any scriptural accounts which illustrate that Satan can and does SPEAK thoughts to our mind DURING prayer to Heavenly Father. Can you? <br /><br />We know Satan can and does talk to us (maybe OUTSIDE of prayer?), like the detailed conversation with Jesus in Matthew 4, or the extraordinary conversation with Moses in Moses 1. <br /><br />It appears that Satan's #1 priority is to STOP us from praying and from asking questions, from seeking, from knocking. <br /><br />In 2 Nephi 32:8, Nephi says that "the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray". So perhaps this is a clue that because Satan's focus is to persuade us not to pray, that his influence in our thoughts is limited?<br /><br />After all, Jesus does teach, "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and he shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For everyone that asketh receiveth..."<br /><br />This is a promise from God, and we know He doesn't lie. So if we are to ask a question to God, He promises to answer.<br /><br />You are saying the FIRST and immediate communication we receive is of God. But I'm wondering if the prayer channel is encrypted, so to speak. I wonder if Satan cannot interfere.<br /><br />But I believe unclean or evil spirits can and do possess our bodies, and therefore it would seem as if THEY could speak voices to our mind to confuse us.<br /><br />It does seem alarming to me IF Satan could speak in a still small voice (in our own voice to our mind), that he would certainly do it and do it ALL THE TIME. But maybe he can't? <br /><br />You said above, "If Satan can prevent you from recognizing and receiving the Holy Ghost, he has won. Period." True, and it almost seems to me that it would be a terribly unfair if not a nearly impossible task to have to discern where certain emotions came from, and ALSO to discern voices in our heads.<br /><br />"Ask and ye shall receive" to me indicates that God has made prayer off limits to Satan as far as speaking to us. But I'm not 100% sure. <br /><br />How many times have we heard testimonies from people, and know this ourselves, that as SOON AS we start to pray, we feel light and get answers or are delivered, and YES "feel the Spirit." <br /><br />Alma 36:18 demonstrates this point precisely. As soon as Alma "caught hold upon this thought" (of Jesus as Savior) and cried for Jesus to deliver him, he WAS delivered.<br /><br />Another story...I just prayed a few minutes ago to express gratitude and as SOON AS I expressed gratitude for your teachings and what I've been learning, I FELT the Spirit come over me as an emotion. <br /><br />This is what I'm accustomed to feeling. I didn't recognize a voice at that moment (now that I know what I'm looking for), but I DID feel a spiritual feeling.<br /><br />Surely THAT is from God. I feel to testify that I KNOW that feeling is from God. Do you disagree? Seems like in your post you have sort of knocked "feelings" off their pedestal. Is that right? <br /><br />And maybe that answers my question to you. You HAVE knocked feelings off the pedestal in that we should not be looking JUST for feelings, but rather for the still small voice (our internal voice). But you're not saying (are you?) that the spiritual warmth I felt a few minutes ago is not sent from God? Underdognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-74641462268819854852016-03-01T09:46:16.788-07:002016-03-01T09:46:16.788-07:00Underdog,
This is a great question! Here are my t...Underdog,<br /><br />This is a great question! Here are my thoughts:<br /><br />First, it's conversational, like you say. Meaning the answer comes immediately when the question is asked or the thought is expressed. Just like when you're talking to a friend. That first voice is often followed by a second voice of doubt. When you learn to catch the difference between the two, it's easier to trust that first, conversational voice. The second voice seems to be "butting in" to the conversation and you can sense it.<br /><br />Also, familiarity makes it easier to recognize the counterfeit. You'll find that as you get more used to the conversation, the "your voice" becomes distinctly "His voice," not based on sound or some such thing, but based on the sense that accompanies it. It's subtle and refined, but it becomes easier to distinguish your thoughts from His. <br /><br />And remember, it's always OK to explain your confusion to the Lord and ask Him to verify something you need verified, just to be sure. He's willing to do so when you ask in faith.<br /><br />Last, I love that you noticed that He wants to talk to you in a familiar manner, as a friend. It continues to surprise me that He has a personality, preferences, even a sense of humor. I was surprised the other day when I was driving to work, and the discussion drifted to cars, and which auto designs the Lord finds attractive. You know, just like anyone else! I don't know why I thought it so odd that He would have preferences, but it was a humorous moment.Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-28874413567933046102016-03-01T09:10:19.788-07:002016-03-01T09:10:19.788-07:00Adrian,
This is a valuable post. Thank you sincer...Adrian,<br /><br />This is a valuable post. Thank you sincerely. I was impressed with the intelligence presented here when I read it the other day. Then, this morning, as I woke up, and was laying in bed in the dark, I was puzzling over a question in my mind, which was how to continue to present the message of 'the Restoration continuing anew in our day', to my wife and kids.<br /><br />As I laid there pondering this important question, I heard MY OWN VOICE talking to me and giving me ideas, and I realized, "Wait a second, this is the Holy Ghost speaking to me! This is God speaking to me!" I recalled you said, "You just don't recognize it because it comes inside you in your own voice. Start paying attention. The problem isn't that it's too foreign. The problem is that it's too familiar." <br /><br />So thank you for this invaluable contribution to my understanding! Since becoming acquainted with Brother Snuffer's testimony and his 10 talks, and reading this blog almost daily for two months now, I've been praying more individually and fervently than I have since converting almost 30 years ago. I have been asking to know Him. I have requested dreams and visions. And received a dream (sort of like Lehi's dream in the imagery, but just a snippet)! <br /><br />I have lately been asking to "hear the voice of God." Then I came across this post a few days ago. As the saying goes, when the student is ready...<br /><br />And now this morning I finally recognized (at least I think I did) the Holy Ghost talking to me. Then 30 minutes ago, as I prayed in a private spot in the forest, I again heard the voice (which was MY voice in my head, like I'm talking to myself), and He talked to me in a very familiar way, almost too casually. It was a surprise to me. Wouldn't Father talk to me more formally, like He talked to Moses (Charleton Heston) on the Mount? <br /><br />Then as I continued the conversation, I realized that His way of talking to me made me feel that He knew me, that He was approachable, that He really was "cool" with talking to me casually and without walls and communication blocks, which encouraged me to continue the conversation in a relaxed manner and to really have a heart-to-heart talk like I would have with my earthly Father, but much MORE relaxed.<br /><br />This is an important step in my journey to know the Lord. I feel I'm progressing. <br /><br />One question: if we do hear our own voice, then it seems like Satan would talk to us, that he would fill our mind with talk every bit as much as Heavenly Father would.<br /><br />Satan can mimic feelings, and so we should be cautious about the feelings we have. But can't Satan just as easily speak to us in our own voice too to attempt to counterfeit the Holy Ghost speaking to us so as to deceive us? <br /><br />It seems the answer has to be YES, in which case, that REALLY complicates things, doesn't it? But perhaps he can't speak to us? No scriptures come to mind on this question. <br /><br />Any comments on this question? Because everything you said about Satan seeking to deceive us by sending certain emotions could just as well apply to sending thoughts to us in the form of our own voice.Underdognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-64871744846285017062015-03-06T17:11:19.716-07:002015-03-06T17:11:19.716-07:00Adrian, I have been thinking about this exact thin...Adrian, I have been thinking about this exact thing for a while now. It is so simple. At least my understanding of it. The challenge remains for me to hear and obey.<br /><br />So for the longest time I lamented over the fact that I was confused about the Spirit, Holy Ghost, good feelings and so forth. I came to this subject many times in the last couple of years. I read in my mind Joseph's quote about the Holy Ghost and pure intelligence over and over again. In fact writing this right here and now I think I realized when I got my answer! <br /><br />I asked God for ANYTHING a few weeks ago. Dream, vision, just something when I went to bed. It is so funny that I am realizing this now. When I awoke I had the singular thought, and by the way wasn't thinking about this subject at all the day before, women would be in charge of priesthood quorums without holding the priesthood. But I understand, RIGHT NOW ACTUALLY, that God wasn't trying to tell me that specifically. He was trying to teach me something I have been pondering about for a long time. Because of that experience I solidified this burning question of what is the Holy Ghost or how does it communicate.<br /><br />My answer is this: God just speaks to you. They are foreign thoughts. They are not your own. So why do we assume in the Church a warm fuzzy has to attend those thoughts? Well first, like you said, it doesn't. In fact I believe God simply speaks the truth to you. He doesn't parade it or sound it through a Heavenly choir. It is simply "repent". Or "believe in Jesus Christ". The FEELING associated with the Holy Ghost is our own doing. When we realize the God is speaking to us, or even misleading spirits, we feel other worldly things! We go WOW! This is the best way I can describe it. If God put a random thought into your head, as He did to me, you're thinking where did that come from? At this moment there is NO emotion. It isn't until you realize that it came from God that you feel good or in some cases scared/fearful if it concerned repentance. You had your feeling instantaneously because you were studying your scriptures and made that connection right then. Amazing!<br /><br />In summary, God speaks to us plainly. No fireworks or thunderings (at first I suppose). If it conforms to the scriptures, along with a list of qualifications, you can be sure it is from God. If however, you talk about how holy and righteous some man is and pretend in our head that he is just that, those feelings are our own doing or misleading spirits.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-35260888114254764152015-01-25T01:39:48.483-07:002015-01-25T01:39:48.483-07:00Thank you all for all of your sharing. I have been...Thank you all for all of your sharing. I have been blessed with new insight. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-50523130748973104902014-12-06T16:11:46.929-07:002014-12-06T16:11:46.929-07:00D&C 8:2-3
2. Yea, behold, I will tell you in y...D&C 8:2-3<br />2. Yea, behold, I will tell you in your MIND and in your HEART, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart.<br />3. Now behold, THIS IS THE SPIRIT OF REVELATION; behold this the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground.<br /><br />Every word must be sustained by 2 witnesses. My experience strongly indicates that the SIMULTANEOUS witness to my heart and mind is the Lord's voice and it CANNOT be duplicated by the adversary. <br />This has been a sure check and balance.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07658374070672365412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-70285852652870150022014-11-20T14:01:57.257-07:002014-11-20T14:01:57.257-07:00Our minds are very complex things, we are barely s...Our minds are very complex things, we are barely scratching the surface with our understanding of the human brain and amazing ways it functions. I see so much evidence for confirmation bias in everything you’ve explained in your theories about how God communicates to us including your scriptural proof texts used to support this thesis. <br /><br />Does God even try to communicate to us on such things? Possibly, but what if our minds are just making sense of what we have observed and remembering things that we should do, and there is no external force communicating to us? I guess there is value in listening to your inner voice, but I don’t see the value in attributing these inner voices to God. <br /><br />If you attribute these communications to God then you are subject to making poor decisions and ignoring proven practices of reasoned critical thinking that can more frequently lead you to the right decisions in life. This may be harmless if following your inner voice means giving someone a call to brighten their day, or baking cookies for someone you think is in need. But if you are deciding what job to take, or who to marry or other critical decisions all based on your inner voice alone, then this is very dangerous and irresponsible decision making. <br />hope_for_thingsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-53336424710243069902014-11-10T13:16:25.283-07:002014-11-10T13:16:25.283-07:00That website has a lot more testimonies, too. Her...That website has a lot more testimonies, too. Here's one that seems to go against the Mormon conception of the Spirit:<br /><br />"I asked the Lord Jesus Christ for a sign to show that the True Jesus Church has the whole truth...<br />One day, I was sitting under a tree, thinking deeply. I was trying to recall some Bible verses on baptism and praying about a doubt that I had. Suddenly, a miracle happened to me. It was like a light that I could not exactly figure out. It shone on me and took away the doubt in my mind. It seemed that the darkness in my mind was lifted. The doctrine on infant baptism, which I could not at first accept, suddenly became very clear me. I could then accept it with my mind and heart. Since that incident, each time I read the Bible, that former opinion to oppose and the refusal to believe and accept were gone. Today I believe that infants must be baptized in order to be saved.<br />...Now I know and am confident that this is the end of my search for the whole truth. I thank the Lord Jesus Christ for answering my prayer and giving me a sign. I have found the whole truth of my salvation. Glory be given to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Hallelujah!!"<br /><br />http://testimoniesofotherfaiths.blogspot.com/search/label/True%20Jesus%20Church<br /><br />This doesn't seem to be an emotion based spiritual experience. It seems more like the "pure intelligence" type. So, is this man deceived? If so, how would he know it? What other explanations are there?Brian Khttp://testimoniesofotherfaiths.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-13293751910060792332014-11-09T18:12:00.466-07:002014-11-09T18:12:00.466-07:00I think that's a valid way to look at Joseph&#...I think that's a valid way to look at Joseph's statement, though you may not necessarily need to prophesy that which the Holy Ghost makes known to you. Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-89500410416199516112014-11-09T17:44:00.438-07:002014-11-09T17:44:00.438-07:00Thank you for this post. I wanted to comment on t...Thank you for this post. I wanted to comment on this section: <br />"It, (the spirit) may give you sudden strokes of ideas, so that by noticing it, you may find it fulfilled the same day or soon; (i.e.) those things that were presented unto your minds by the Spirit of God, will come to pass;"<br />This to me sounds like more than suddenly knowing something that you didn't know before. To me this sounds like being able to prophesy, and see it fulfilled. Is that the way you understand it?<br />-RubyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-59688682860218993162014-11-07T06:18:00.233-07:002014-11-07T06:18:00.233-07:00Excellent points! Thank you for your insights!Excellent points! Thank you for your insights!Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.com