tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post4698497371963023030..comments2024-03-26T14:29:25.921-06:00Comments on To The Remnant: One YearAdrian Larsenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comBlogger123125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-28544760789207504212018-09-15T18:10:09.737-06:002018-09-15T18:10:09.737-06:00Everyone who cares practices their dance moves. Ex...Everyone who cares practices their dance moves. Extra points for a group. The winner chosen by applause measured by a decibel meter. Winning person/group decides the SoP. Daniel Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03969393067450059097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-2052609454437453642018-09-15T15:17:28.535-06:002018-09-15T15:17:28.535-06:00So you're proposing Keith Henderson gets to wr...So you're proposing Keith Henderson gets to write the SoP for us, then?TBMhttp://atbmblog.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-78884906546072350152018-09-15T08:54:01.528-06:002018-09-15T08:54:01.528-06:00There is truth to what Jared has said about the Ro...There is truth to what Jared has said about the Rock of Christ. The law of Christ, or the sermons at Bountiful and the Mount absolutely should be a Guide and Standard of this people, but so should the Doctrine of Christ. The Answer and Covenant is the doctrine and law of Christ set in words for us in our day for our peculiar circumstances. <br />So, can we have only one standard that guides us? If it’s the Answer and the Covenant does that mean the Law of Christ or the Doctrine of Christ isn’t?<br />All need to be a Guide and Standard in our lives.<br />So, what about a Statement of Principles? Can a Statement of Principles or a replacement for Section 20 also be used as a Guide and Standard? And particularly for those who know nothing about the work that now underway?<br />Of course!!<br />John W Dutsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06596818881738243959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-27966769664181420212018-09-14T21:53:16.928-06:002018-09-14T21:53:16.928-06:00I propose the SoP be decided by dance off.I propose the SoP be decided by dance off.Daniel Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03969393067450059097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-52332587254642156622018-09-14T21:07:26.213-06:002018-09-14T21:07:26.213-06:00Hi OpenMind - I'm sorry, I just barely saw thi...Hi OpenMind - I'm sorry, I just barely saw this. Amazing that this comment thread is still going (or maybe it shouldn't be such a surprise). If there are people who have treated him (I believe it's Jared?) poorly, then I think that's not in harmony with what we should be striving for. But, I'm under the impression this is unrelated to the regret Jared expressed for taking the covenant. I believe he said he knew it was a mistake the moment he took the covenant. That would have preceded any mistreatment he seems to have experienced, which only came later during all the debate and discussion about the statement of principles.<br /><br />If Jared is operating under the Lord's influence, as an instrument in the Lord's hand, then our Lord is a mysterious and unsearchable God indeed. Jared made it clear in the following post what it is that's in the Lord's heart: http://logscabin.blogspot.com/2018/05/this-is-all-very-simple.html.<br /><br />If this is of God, then the Lord has told us that unless the Gentiles adopt the rock of Christ as the only document satisfying His requests in the answer and covenant, then we belong inextricably bound to a single fate. And that's to be overrun by the remnant of Jacob, in fulfillment of Book of Mormon prophecy.<br /><br />I agree that we must abide by the principles of the rock of Christ to escape such a fate. The question, however, as it concerns the statement of principles is this: Do we need to adopt the rock of Christ as the only statement that will satisfy requirements the Lord gave us in the answer and covenant?Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18380790730693501560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-62539003446133638562018-09-14T06:12:46.921-06:002018-09-14T06:12:46.921-06:00So, apparently, it’s hopeless, what possible good ...So, apparently, it’s hopeless, what possible good could come out of Gods people coming together for a conference to break bread and dedicated to talk about the mechanism we plan to use for making decisions going forward and this particular dilemma we currently face? The only thing that could come of it is hard hearts and rehashing the same old stuff? We’d rather spend our time sitting all day in conference listening to talks? So, it really sounds better to take the questions of not only the S o P but how we plan to make decisions going forward and cram it into 15 minutes and the end of the day sitting and listening to talks? That’s the answer? That’s the commitment we have for Zion, listening to talks? <br />I’m here to tell you, if we don’t deal with this dilemma, presenting a Statement of Principles to the Lord will be nothing but an empty gesture, honoring Him with our lips, certainly not our hearts!<br />I fear these words of Denver will prove to be prophetic. <br />“He doesn’t want the present assortment of people to be allowed to build His house...He doesn’t want the rebellious or froward to know where to go or be to interfere with the peace of that land” Denver Snuffer’s blog 4-11-18<br />I pray I'm wrong!John W Dutsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06596818881738243959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-57071738397027159872018-09-13T19:34:52.597-06:002018-09-13T19:34:52.597-06:00I agree with Cameron. I don’t think because we in...I agree with Cameron. I don’t think because we institute a chief and and a medicine man into the process, that it will negate what we have already done. What it does do is give someone authority from the group for someone to make a decision. <br /><br />The problem is that we have some who don’t agree and a scripture committee who is not comfortable still having people who don’t agree, as we need to have mutual agreement. So we give a couple of worthy people authority to make some decisions for the group. They would be tasked with bringing us together by reasoning with those who still disagree. And determining if those who refuse any compromises are indeed hard hearted and can be overruled by whoever is given the authority from the group by Lots to make the decisions. These decision makers would continually rotate as Denver has suggested so we continue to maintain equality. Then there is a way to move forward. Currently there is no way to move forward, only rehash what we have already done with no real progress being made with a G&S or with achieving unity. Thanks, LisaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-36426652056345172362018-09-13T18:17:45.641-06:002018-09-13T18:17:45.641-06:00(Since writing this, the moiety doc writer agreed ...(Since writing this, the moiety doc writer agreed to be more forthcoming that some of their document uses language from what I wrote above and what other fellowships worked on...regardless of authorship, it is easier to consider the two different approaches now. If their anonymous effort takes off and brings unity, that's great. If some initial ideas like the ones above help with baby steps, that may be a different route to take, too. Also, Denver's "Dances With Wolves" podcast offers the next step of how to vote, whether that includes individuals or representatives from fellowships, or a combination of the two picking randomized spots)Brian Zang (The Zang Family)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08307604832271130264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-23933044629185079302018-09-13T17:18:51.188-06:002018-09-13T17:18:51.188-06:00Your implied premise in paragraph 1 that everyone ...Your implied premise in paragraph 1 that everyone who voted for the lots SOP is agreeable and everyone who did not is froward because they “refuse to lay down their hearts” is completely false.<br /><br />I voted for the Lots SOP in phoenix. I am telling you I was and am wrong. I was hard hearted. I was and am arrogant. I refuse to accuse any who opposed as if I am somehow in a different “class” of covenant member. So I am in your 90+% “majority” who voted for the lots group. I’d be willing to accept nearly any SOP so long as every other covenant member placed it in their scriptures before me. And I’m telling you publicly and truthfully that I am not agreeable. I was and still am the problem. Any who accuse those who do not bow down to the majority as somehow contentious or not agreeable also accuse me who DID vote for the lots SOP. Therefore by accusing someone in your lofty and somehow justified group you accuse also yourself. <br /><br />No SOP will be unanimously accepted by all of their own free will so long any anyone accuses anyone else either publicly or in their heart.<br /><br />One heart. One mind.OpenMindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13245205813750451843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-48274650892775774392018-09-13T17:16:00.683-06:002018-09-13T17:16:00.683-06:00Blair,
I apologize for my poor assumptions. I too...Blair,<br /><br />I apologize for my poor assumptions. I took your words "I must disagree with your statement that if our hearts are right, we would all rather submit our will to a single person who declares that he or she will dissent to every SOP except for one or leave. If this were the case, then surely we would have all submitted to the adversary before this mortality." as comparing anyone who didn't fall in line with the supposed majority to the adversary. I can see now I misinterpreted you. I truly am sorry. I wish we could speak face to face more often but we all have responsibilities and lives to live.<br /><br />Since Jared Livesay has not said anyone needs to agree with him in any way shape or form, I will definitely not say that.<br /><br />I propose everyone gets on their knees and pray and ask specifically that they can stop accusing anyone both consciously and subconsciously. There is a very good reason Christ expounded on Satan as a title that means "accuser, opponent, or adversary" in the Answer to the prayer for covenant BEFORE he said anything else which directly related to the specific prayer. <br /><br />Even thinking in your heart that someone else is the impediment we have to achieving unity on this SOP is by definition an accusation. It places you in a superior or elevated position to someone else based on you subjectively perceive as them being "forward", or contentious, or simply not right because they don't see your position the way you do. <br /><br />Our Lord is no respecter of persons. This is literally true. He was the only human being who actually had the eternal right to claim he was superior to anyone else, and yet he knelt to wash the feet of others, healed the sick, and gave His life UNJUSTLY for all. Had he elected not to save all of mankind, he would have been "right" by every single definition. We rejoice because He DID redeem Israel. He is the prototype. To state or imply or believe someone else is the problem here besides myself and I'm somehow justified is to literally mock and scorn Christ and point to Him as the problem. I'm not being dramatic or hyperbolic here. When Christ taught "Inasmuch as you have done it unto the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me" he meant PRECISELY that.<br /><br />When asked the (singular) great commandment in the law the Savior responded:<br /><br />"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all your heart, might, mind, and strength.<br /><br />The second is LIKE UNTO IT. Thy shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."<br /><br />If we all pondered over those two statements for 1 week with the question in mind: "why would the first commandment be LIKE UNTO the second", eyes would begin to open the way they need to be opened for any group to become "of one heart and one mind".<br /><br />Why did He respond with two commandments? Since "like unto" means "equal" in this context, was it two different ways of saying the same thing?<br /><br />Sorry for my long response Blair. You just seem very sincere and open. We just need to take the scriptures far more seriously and far more to heart. Specifically the lectures on Faith and "Our Divine Parents" are critical. <br /> <br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br />OpenMindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13245205813750451843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-71601716787348411202018-09-13T14:32:03.382-06:002018-09-13T14:32:03.382-06:00Personally, I'm of the opinion that there coul...Personally, I'm of the opinion that there could be a middle ground between these two extremes that have been brought up. If the group doesn't think that the prior attempts were sufficient to finalize a document already, why not draw lots to select a decision maker and a counselor who will review where we are right now, and decide on the path forward from here. Just to be clear, if they deem that we need to start over, so be it... but if they deem that enough has already been done and we are ready to publish OR that we can start with what we have and move forward, this could still honor the efforts already complete AND start us close to the finish line instead of reverting all the way back to the beginning. <br /><br />I'm persuaded by the comparison with what has already transpired and a potential new effort that would be started... I think all (or at least most) of the work has already been done. <br /><br />I'm quite content to simply be an "indian" in this matter.Cameronnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-89797265915899049002018-09-13T13:22:18.795-06:002018-09-13T13:22:18.795-06:00Tausha
I believe I understand both camps. To be ho...Tausha<br />I believe I understand both camps. To be honest, my natural default mode is let’s get thing done already and move on!!<br />But I’m also trying rethink my way of doing business and consider the possibility that there could very well be truth in both camps.<br />Now, I’m also very much one who believes this needs to be our priority as a people and should be given our full attention, all of us, not just some, all. For the first time I think this assignment has everyone’s attention and we are all fully aware of our failings.<br />Why not have a conference in the next few months where we plan and prepare in advance, to not only fulfill this assignment, but prepare and agree upon the path for future assignments while we are all fully aware of our plight. A conference where there is NOTHING else on the agenda but the “mechanism for making decisions going forward, starting with the statement of Principles?<br />John W Dutsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06596818881738243959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-40450904700458889462018-09-13T12:52:24.185-06:002018-09-13T12:52:24.185-06:00John, there does seem to be 2 different camps. Ple...John, there does seem to be 2 different camps. Please correct my understanding if it is off. <br /><br />One camp feels the urgency to obey the Lord's command and finish this assignment. They are ready to "Choose to not dispute," and get a replacement for section 20 printed in the onion skin scriptures. <br /><br />The second camp would rather wait to obey the assignment by spending time healing wounded hearts and starting over with a new process that is more inclusive. Time does not seem to be a concern because the most important issue is our hearts. <br /><br />I would like to suggest that choosing to not dispute is also an issue of the heart. I believe this shows the Lord we are willing to let Him heal our wounds and that we value obeying His commandments. <br /><br />I reiterate my points above that there will be more opportunities for learning how to work together as a people to become of one heart and one mind. This is a process that will take time. So at this point do we choose between obedience or the command to become of one heart and one mind? To me it seems the latter will come eventually, so why not choose to obey now?Tausha Larsennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-68406553363867541382018-09-13T10:31:50.055-06:002018-09-13T10:31:50.055-06:00There were people, you know “them” who threw a wre...There were people, you know “them” who threw a wrench in the works, and if not for “those people” we would have a SoP in the scriptures. HOWEVER, we would be poorer for it in my opinion. They believe they were following the spirit others do not. I say they were, for the very reason it has caused us to address some serious issues that need attention before we move forwards!John W Dutsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06596818881738243959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-39117413226863678352018-09-13T10:23:00.181-06:002018-09-13T10:23:00.181-06:00Anonymous,
I agree with many of your points. I thi...Anonymous,<br />I agree with many of your points. I think there are interesting similarities between Denver's podcast and the Lots process.<br /><br />That being said, If it makes anyone feel better, I have no problem doing it all over again. I don't think that would reflect poorly on the Lotsters or the document they produced. I think it would say more about us as a people that we are willing to try again if it would satisfy more among us.Blairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10087472122863801493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-22091385114085189342018-09-13T10:21:39.140-06:002018-09-13T10:21:39.140-06:00Adrian
In my view this has turned into an us versu...Adrian<br />In my view this has turned into an us versus them scenario. I agree, this NOT going to be the end all, magic wand we're now all one when we finish assignment.<br />I wonder though if, as good little gentiles, we have missile lock on the document and NOT learning from the assignments experience. That the process is just as and in my opinion, more important than the finished product.<br />This assignment has made it abundantly clear we have a long way to go in becoming one. I believe we need to use this as a place to start. It’s rarely a bad thing to start off right and success can breed success. When we begin to trust each other, things can begin to move forward at an accelerated pace. I think getting together and on the same page on how we intend to move forward, starting here and now makes sense.<br />As I have said many times, I'm not geared to disputation, it’s not my way, I'm fine with more than one of the documents, I just worry we’re missing the point of this experience. <br />John W Dutsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06596818881738243959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-87862014815849323112018-09-13T10:13:46.841-06:002018-09-13T10:13:46.841-06:00Your analysis is brilliant! Thank you so much for ...Your analysis is brilliant! Thank you so much for taking the time to write this all out in such a well organized and easy to follow format. I believe the Lots process was inspired. <br /><br />I'd like to add that those holding the white buttons, have had many opportunities to voice their concerns, and maybe it is now time for the chief to make a decision. The Lotster's could also be viewed as Medicine Men, listening to the concerns of others for many months, but one (a woman) was chosen to be the spokesperson. What happened so many months ago was truly beautiful. Maybe it's been there all along.Tausha Larsennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-35811892085767926082018-09-13T10:05:50.056-06:002018-09-13T10:05:50.056-06:00OpenMind,
Please don't take offense or think t...OpenMind,<br />Please don't take offense or think that I am accusing anyone. I was responding to this statement of yours:<br /><br />"By that point, if a single soul among them declares they will dissent to every SOP except a certain one or leave, everyone else would rather submit their wills to save the one because they will finally comprehend the worth of the one."<br /><br />My point was that imperfect mortals submitting their will to another imperfect mortal is not supported by scripture, and in fact, scripture seems to point at the opposite.<br /><br />Your suggestion that I am comparing anyone in this group to the adversary is both wrong and hurtful. Please don't twist my words. I was talking about your statement, not any person.<br /><br />I was not at the Phoenix conference, so I can't speak to that. I can only speak to what I have read online. I have not accused any who have opposed prior efforts of anything.<br /><br />When you say that they are "light years more Christlike than you can imagine," I believe you. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and assume that everyone is further along the path to God than I.<br /><br />I think that adopting an SOP should show love, yes. And that love should be shown by all sides. However, adopting one particular SOP over another is not an indication that anyone does not love anyone else. Does my choice to say both sacrament prayers at the same time before taking part of either mean that I don't love those that operate differently? Of course not. All it means is that I choose differently.<br /><br />I have read all of the proposed SOPs. I see value in all of them. However, I also agree with the assessment of others on what the Lord has required of us, and I want to fulfill his requirements.<br /><br />I believe everyone in this movement has love towards everyone else. They just don't know how to communicate and come to a unified agreement.<br /><br />The problem is, there have been many who have either opposed everything without putting anything else forward, or they hold to one SOP that many believe does not meet the requirements.<br /><br />How do we get past this? Do we need to come together first to agree on what the Lord's requirements are? Perhaps.<br /><br />I get what you are saying about showing love toward all. I agree that we all need to do that. As we work toward that, we still have the nuts and bolts of how to do this thing that the Lord requires of us.<br /><br />Let's give everyone the benefit of the doubt and assume that we all have Christlike love for one another, and work out this problem. What is the process? What do you propose? If you propose that we all just agree with Jared Livesy, then state that. Let's get all the propositions out in the open so that we can coalesce them into one SOP that fits the Lord's requirements.Blairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10087472122863801493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-12347024294576522622018-09-13T10:02:23.661-06:002018-09-13T10:02:23.661-06:00But by the same token, the document isn't mere...But by the same token, the document isn't merely a red herring, designed to bring about this result, while being, of itself, unimportant. There is a specific commandment given, and we cannot claim we have obeyed the specific commandment until we have done as directed. <br /><br />My wife, Tausha, offered some wise words that I share here:<br /><br />It appears that some believe this writing assignment is THE tool to make us a Zion-like people, as if it is the end-all-be-all exercise in transforming our hearts and making us become of one heart and one mind in one fell swoop, when reality it is just a little stepping stone along the way. We have all learned a little bit more about dealing with, and communicating with, and loving others through this assignment, and that is all good, but there will be other future experiences that will help further us along in our quest to become Zion. It CANNOT be done on one step, and we cannot neglect to obey our Lord because we are waiting to complete a process that is designed to take many years (becoming one.)<br /><br />So let’s just finish this assignment, and pray that the Lord will continue providing assignments and experiences to help us become (line by line and precept by precept) His people of one heart and one mind!<br /><br />In the covenant offered we stood and covenanted to SEEK to become of one heart with those who seek the Lord and to establish His righteousness. It’s OK that we aren’t there yet if we are seeking to become just that. So let’s finish the assignment and have faith the Lord will guide us there.Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-53129215591641477432018-09-13T09:57:40.193-06:002018-09-13T09:57:40.193-06:00Anonymous,
Brilliant insights! It appears to me t...Anonymous,<br /><br />Brilliant insights! It appears to me that the lots process, in every particular, satisfied the spirit of what was proposed in the podcast. It's also clear that both the Lord's hand and the voice of the people have been clearly manifest. <br /><br />All that remains is to publish what the people have already overwhelmingly selected, produced, and approved. Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-49411272964831909922018-09-13T09:34:30.307-06:002018-09-13T09:34:30.307-06:00This assignment, this whole exercise isn’t about “...This assignment, this whole exercise isn’t about “a document”!<br />This is about bringing a covenant people together and learning how to become one. Obviously, we haven’t done that yet! So, any failures need to be seen as a work in progress getting us to that lofty, only twice in recorded history status. I see no reason to quit now! We just need to regroup and move forward, together. No more they, them and those people, just us a covenant people who not only trust the Lord, but each other’s hearts and intentions. Not an easy task for those raised in Babylon.<br />John W Dutsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06596818881738243959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-11349511247310455952018-09-13T02:58:46.545-06:002018-09-13T02:58:46.545-06:00Part 3
Denver's Podcast: "...we don'...Part 3<br /><br />Denver's Podcast: "...we don't get there [being able to make a decision by the voice of the people] by having forceful and intransigent minds, insisting that when they see a truth, it is all the truth, it is the only truth, and it can never be compromised, modified, or altered in any particular because it is their truth." "Some people refuse to lay down for the heart of the community, their own heart."<br /><br />Could it be possible that the very ideas shared in the podcast were not meant for us to start the GS all over and follow as an exact model; but rather given as a general concept---that can be used, or something "like that" in a myriad of decision making challenges? And is it possible that in regards to the GS matter, we actually already have followed something very “like that” model---but we've been so blinded with our own insistence that the truth be as we see it, that we failed to see the beauty of exactly what was accomplished? <br /><br />If our hearts are intransigent (unwilling to compromise or moderate a position; unreasonable), then it won't matter if we sit in a circle with white, black and blue stones and create another variation of what was already done with the Lots back in November. Someone may still say the outcome doesn’t reflect their vision and find fault yet again. Maybe it isn't that we were being told we need to try something that we haven't tried; but rather that we were so blinded that we failed to see the beauty of what happened all those months ago.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-28678390673675880672018-09-13T02:58:00.617-06:002018-09-13T02:58:00.617-06:00Part 2
Parallel #3 - Lots are drawn in both model...Part 2<br /><br />Parallel #3 - Lots are drawn in both models to choose roles.<br /><br />November 2017: Seven lots were drawn to decide who would take on the responsibility of writing the final GS for the entire body. In this scenario, this would be like having 7 people holding the black stone together. After studying the inspired documents [hearing from the white stone holders], these will be the ones making the final decision.<br /><br />Denver's Podcast: Stones were drawn to choose who would be chief, spiritual advisor, and voice input. The chief listened to everyone, but made the final decision.<br /><br />Parallel #4 - One voice comes prayerfully prepared in the role of wisdom.<br /><br />November 2017: When the time to approach the Lord arrived to see if He had accepted the final Lots GS; the only woman among them was chosen to give voice to the prayer and received the communication from the Lord that conveyed His acceptance. The spirit manifested to each of them, that the words she shared were of God.<br /><br />Denver's Podcast: "If you are the medicine man come prayerfully. Prayerfully participate. Advise based upon the wisdom of God." He quipped that eventually maybe the role of the spiritual advisor should always be a woman. <br /><br />Parallel #5 - The drawing of lots to make decisions eliminates an hierarchy and allows for equality.<br /><br />November 2017: Every covenant holder was invited to participate, had an equal chance for selection, was invited to contribute their wisdom through submission of documents and analyze and give input into the rough draft version [another chance at holding the white stone]. Upon completion of the task, the Lots counsel disbanded. They were temporary; for a "one time" assignment and decision making role.<br /><br />Denver's Podcast: "Within community, no one gets to control. Authority is equally distributed." "We do something like that [the model he gave] which is transitory and temporary." <br /><br />Notice, his point is not that we must do exactly this process, but something like it---something that keeps the decision making power temporary.<br /><br />Parallel #6 - Success depends upon the hearts of the people being able to compromise.<br /><br />November 2017: Many soft hearts were exhibited with a willingness to accept and support a scripturally based process, founded in equality, that allowed a small group to be chosen to listen to the voice and input of the people as expressed after 9 months of discussion and through their contributed documents. Though an imperfect document was produced, the vast majority were able to set aside personal preferences, or opinions, and see that the effort satisfied the Lord's instructions and requirements. A small number felt to agree with something different than how God had answered them, would be to compromise the truth as they saw it. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-55080300096501350872018-09-13T02:56:57.766-06:002018-09-13T02:56:57.766-06:00It is interesting how we all see the same thing di...It is interesting how we all see the same thing differently. Last November, after months of dialogue, we were at an impasse on the GS issue, and a solution was put forth to cast lots to allow a group to be chosen by God, and without bias, to resolve the matter. The solution they came to garnered 90+% support in both a November vote and a Phoenix Conference vote. Yet because "some people refuse to lay down for the heart of the community, their own heart," the vote to sustain was delayed and printing never happened.<br /><br />Ten months later, we have now hear a podcast that may have been directed at the GS issue, or may have been merely directed toward fellowships making decisions; and the concept is put forth to cast lots using colored stones. Now people are excited about the solution and its prospects of success, while they ignore that such a method has already been used, and reject the result that came from it. I guess the assumption is that since Denver made the suggestion, and not just ordinary covenant body members, it is now a whole different ball-game. Now it will actually work.<br /><br />Someone pointed out to me today some interesting parallels between what happened with the November Lots, and the model that was proposed in the podcast. Here are a few parallels:<br /><br />Parallel #1 - An impasse is reached in making a decision. <br /><br />November 2017: The covenant body wrestled over what exact wording was to be used for the GS document. And they wrestled over "who" would be able to write it. Many felt they had been "called" and many had written what they believed to be inspired documents already. There was no apparent way to resolve the debate. A clear impasse existed.<br /><br />Denver's Podcast: “The Book of Mormon says , It’s not often that the voice of the people are going choose error. Well the voice of the people in the context of making a decision--- If a decision can be made in no other way (an impasse), should be heard in this kind of a cooperative, enlightened outpouring of viewpoints however diverse they may be, however difficult to reconcile they may be....I think it is ONE model that can be experimented with..."<br /><br />[When an impasse comes, it didn't say this model is THE only way that this concept can be done---rather “one model,”---leaving open something akin to it.]<br /><br />Parallel #2 - Those that feel inspired are able to contribute/give counsel.<br /><br />November 2017: The Lots invited EVERYONE who had felt inspired to write a GS document, to share their inspired input---what they felt God had told them in answer to their prayers and personal communication with God---as a means to draw insight and counsel from in making the decision on what to include in the final GS version written. [The white stones]<br /><br />Denver's Podcast: "Everyone acknowledging that if you've gotten a prayerful answer it is important for you to come and to voice that prayerful answer in order for the decision that gets made...to have some enlightenment." [The white stones]<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-5847768465997823472018-09-12T20:59:11.404-06:002018-09-12T20:59:11.404-06:00I love Chris's post about the SoP and share th...I love Chris's post about the SoP and share those concerns. As noted above, the Dances with Wolves podcast seems to offer a feasible mechanism which, like the lots idea, offers a way for God to intervene as well as a real hope of a resolution to the impasse. <br /><br />I like the idea of getting used to using the suggested method on a less crucial issue before resolving the SoP decision. Let's walk before we run. The initial issue could include something such determining where the next conference should be held, or how the button method would be applied to the SoP decision-- i.e. issues such as who will participate in the cirlce? Convenant holder individuals? Non-covenant holder individuals? representatives from fellowships? <br /><br />This way, we progress toward the resolution of the SoP issue but in a methodical manner. doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02592825298396267179noreply@blogger.com