tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post1821956359407106322..comments2024-03-26T14:29:25.921-06:00Comments on To The Remnant: Apostates and Broken BroomsAdrian Larsenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-74438547879529865222014-11-24T10:22:36.671-07:002014-11-24T10:22:36.671-07:00You mention that believing apostates are numbered ...You mention that believing apostates are numbered with unbelievers. As one who is struggling with belief (in the Bible, in the D&C, in the PGP, in our general adoption of a Hebrew religious culture as a bunch of completely dissociated "Gentiles" who have filtered our religion through a politically motivated medieval Europe) but who still has hope, I sincerely hope that though I may be an "apostate" (in even lower standing than one who believes in these things wholeheartedly) it might be tolerable for me in the day of judgment. Excellent post.Chasenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-39801700316143986072014-11-24T06:14:12.350-07:002014-11-24T06:14:12.350-07:00The bit in Lectures on Faith 6:5 about giving up w...The bit in Lectures on Faith 6:5 about giving up wife and children for "the excellency of the knowledge of Jesus Christ" has always worried me some, because, frankly, I don't particularly want to give up my wife. I realize of course that very few are really keen on the idea. However, I realized now I can take comfort in the fact that my wife will likewise give me up, if necessary, in order to obtain her own salvation, and I shouldn't feel bad about it. Or in other words, she values Christ above me, as she and I both should. Thankfully, thus far we've been able to travel this road together.Fletcherhttp://www.lmgtfy.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-31228893889816710592014-11-23T17:29:55.857-07:002014-11-23T17:29:55.857-07:00Well done "Mister" Larson! :) I have b...Well done "Mister" Larson! :) I have been experiencing much of what you have written about in the relationships within my own extended family. For as much emphasis as the church has placed on family.... they have somehow missed the most important part of all....Love one another...as Jesus Loves us all. I have been edified by your words and scriptural references....and of course the story of Chewy! I will continue to pray for you,your beautiful family, and for all the "haters" who live in fear. Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02826354496477480802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-4032647000125589412014-11-23T10:47:53.435-07:002014-11-23T10:47:53.435-07:00Thank you to Adrian and all of the commentors. You...Thank you to Adrian and all of the commentors. Your words made me think. They made me want to find out the truth for myself. They send me to my knees to discover truth.<br /><br />I believe I am at the point where I do not rely on any man for my testimony. If Joseph should turn up to have horrible defects of character, I don't think it would change what I believe, doctrinely. It is good to know that if, perchance, great deception and fraud abounded in the top levels of the LDS church (I do NOT believe this is so) and was proven to the world, I would feel no need to turn into an enemy of the truths God has given to me.<br /><br />Though I don't believe there is intentional leading astray in the top levels, my fear is that if there ever is and it is proven, many hearts would turn from Christ and even from a belief in God - because of the false doctrine currently being taught that a man cannot lead you astray, that a corporation cannot lead you astray. What better way to lead to hell than to set up a man as a paragon of virtue that oneJ must mindlessly and completely obey in order to avoid that hell one is descending into by mindlessly following men? Toni Batenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-43973991128956888642014-11-22T22:29:24.265-07:002014-11-22T22:29:24.265-07:00That's just it. I have not forsaken my religio...That's just it. I have not forsaken my religion at all. I am fiercely devoted to it. The church organization that claims to own my religion, however, has forsaken me. <br /><br />I'm amazed that people keep talking about how I "left" the LDS church. If that's true, I quip in reply, I didn't go out the door—it was the window. <br /><br />I didn't leave. I was cast out. There's an important difference. I remain faithful and devoted to the gospel of Jesus Christ and the restoration through Joseph Smith.Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-35417210861648735112014-11-22T22:24:59.299-07:002014-11-22T22:24:59.299-07:00Good catch on the reference. And a great comment t...Good catch on the reference. And a great comment too! Thanks, Greg.Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-15566142145415055992014-11-22T22:16:17.303-07:002014-11-22T22:16:17.303-07:00I don't understand the problem with being call...I don't understand the problem with being called apostate, the dictionary says apostate is one who has forsaken his religion, isn't that what you have done. If I were a catholic and I left and joined the lds church , I would be an apostate from the Catholic Church . I am sure there are those in the lds church that do do the things you are saying, but I do not believe it is the majority just like in anything you will encounter people who are afraid chavezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13565071970151899363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-69296356008645370802014-11-22T19:38:45.501-07:002014-11-22T19:38:45.501-07:00Wonderful post Adrian. It is amazing to see the bi...Wonderful post Adrian. It is amazing to see the bitterness that arises just by searching for truth, especially when that truth opposes a long history of false tradition.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00589982650758073868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-66657037016269638762014-11-22T19:17:19.208-07:002014-11-22T19:17:19.208-07:00Thank you for writing this post. This has been so...Thank you for writing this post. This has been something with which I have had a lot of experience. (and by experience, note that I don't consider myself adept at handling such circumstances in a Christ-like manner, there is a lot of room for improvement in my life.)<br /><br />Truth has been shared, thank you for your kindness and concern. I know Nephi could relate to this post, in fact didn’t some of what he taught teach the same things? <br /><br />Fear destroys and constricts, loves creates and expands. When one lives in fear they tend to want to control by compulsion, and amongst LDS its more through mental compulsion than physical compulsion. Fear cannot create order nor harmony, it only can create chaos and disharmony. When living in fear it is easy for those in a position to influence you wrongly as to control and manipulate you through emotions and tradition. Anyone who acts in fear against others because of what they think or do, should know that each one of us will stand or fall according to our own faith in God as we are ultimately only accountable to Him, and as such you need not fear your own standing before God because of what someone else thinks or does, unless of course it merits your repentance. Truth can be found from the most unlikely places.<br /><br />Cognitive dissonance is hard to overcome, few actually do. Many believe Christ to be their sure foundation, and they feel very strongly about their position yet act like man has the power to overthrow Christ. This is an example of cognitive dissonance. When your beliefs, feelings and actions disagree with one another thus having chaos within oneself. Or in other words, you are lying to yourself and probably don’t realize it. The three greatest and yet most difficult words to say, I was wrong. If you truly had Christ as your sure foundation, then when confronted with something that opposed that foundation, why act as if that foundation hasn’t the power to save you? I can’t say for sure because we all sin, however, you would expect someone who has Christ as their foundation to react with love and charity towards people with opposing ideas, whose souls if not reclaimed to truth by persuasion, meekness and longsuffering, would be damned? <br /><br />I believe we all struggle with cognitive dissonance to one degree or another, and that is why I believe we need to be as little children who have no pretense when it comes to what they know and are comfortable with the apparent lack of knowledge yet are ever eager to ask and learn.<br /><br />I write this not to say that I myself don’t suffer from such fantasies, but that like Nephi (see 1 Nephi 2: 16), I too must overcome doubt and fear each and every time I am confronted with truth where only error is present. This ought to be something with which we are acquainted and willing to perform again and again if we hope to be brought into the light as to not perish in the darkness. Truth cannot be harmed in the process of discovery, and if error be discovered and harmed, then for the better.<br /><br />By the way Adrian, your reference to 1 Nephi 13:14-15 should be 3 Nephi 13:14-15 beneath the Judging and Forging part of your post.<br />Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11060502018935108730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-45381065509693268772014-11-22T17:32:46.679-07:002014-11-22T17:32:46.679-07:00Karen, thanks for reading and thanks for asking.
...Karen, thanks for reading and thanks for asking. <br /><br />My purpose, as you noted, is to teach truth and point to Christ. In so doing, I bump up against institutional and cultural unbelief and traditions that are keeping us from exercising faith and seeking the Lord. Some of these false beliefs and false traditions are actively taught in the curriculum and manuals of the LDS church. This doesn’t make them true. <br /><br />Such traditions and unbeliefs are challenged by what I write. I can understand how some may view this as criticism, however I don’t set out with the purpose of finding fault or criticizing the church or its leaders. In fact, I’ve tried to be as kind as possible while still being true to the message. Though I do challenge our collective errors, I avoid personally attacking anyone.<br /><br />Sometimes there’s very high degree of sensitivity. For example, in a post I remarked that President Monson tells stories about himself. Someone took issue with me for this statement, as if it were a criticism. But it’s not criticism. It’s simply a fact. He does tell stories about himself and his life. I can even buy an autographed book of his life stories at Deseret Book. Is observing this fact the same as criticizing President Monson? The reader gets to decide whether such a fact reflects positively or negatively on President Monson.<br /><br />If the things I point out feel like criticism, it means they are uncomfortable for the hearer, who would then be well served to examine why they are uncomfortable with what I write.<br /><br />I have indeed taken all these issues up with the Lord, as you have suggested, and he has put me in the uncomfortable position of teaching these things publicly. So I do what is asked and accept the consequences of doing so.<br /><br />Ultimately, anything that is more important to us than our Lord will be challenged by Him. If we find it more important to follow men than to follow Christ, if we believe a testimony of the church is more important than a testimony of Christ, if we put obeying a list of rules above obeying God’s word, all these will be challenged and torn down by him. <br /><br />It is far safer for us to recognize and voluntarily re-orient ourselves to Christ now, while we can, than to wait until the coming destruction when it is too late. Something about wise and foolish virgins.<br /><br />A note about comments:<br /><br />I realize some of the comments here are highly critical of the LDS church and its leadership. I don't control the content of comments, nor do I vouch for them. I allow a wide range of opinions to be published in comments because I believe such an approach gives us all the most opportunity to evaluate various opinions and seek truth for ourselves.Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-53046824019626009032014-11-22T14:58:54.684-07:002014-11-22T14:58:54.684-07:00I'm new to your blog and find much of it very ...I'm new to your blog and find much of it very interesting and inspiring to improve myself and the way I follow the Savior. I commend you for your desire to "teach truth" and "help others come closer to Christ". What I don't understand is why, in the process, you have to be so critical of the LDS church and it's leaders? You've encouraged people to "take it up with the Lord". If you follow your own advice, could you not take all of these issues up with the Lord without having to disparage the church through social media? If your main purpose is to help people, why do so by tearing others down?Karennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-30954591554996064962014-11-22T14:27:51.580-07:002014-11-22T14:27:51.580-07:002 Nephi 28:21 warns against pacification in our da...2 Nephi 28:21 warns against pacification in our day. I find nothing more pacified and "all is wellish" than the un-scriptural doctrine that God guarantees that His church leaders should always be automatically trusted and sustained. All leaders can fail and the scriptures directly speak of it. Even the Prophet is not to be considered as a superior, but as an equal. D&C 38:24-25 teaches this. JST Mark 9:40-48 teaches a correct principle that all should learn in governing themselves: "Therefore, let every man stand or fall, by himself, and not for another; or not trusting another." This scripture clarifies that a dear brother (a hand), a leader (a foot) or even the Prophet (an eye) can fail and should not be automatically trusted. A member of the church simply cannot live by this principle if they do not have the right to “not sustain” even the Prophet and have a controversy that is legitimate over him-- as taught in D&C 107:81-84. A believer in the Book of Mormon surely has the right to trust in 2 Nephi 28:21 and consider any possible form of pacification that could lead to hell today. That must include problems among the church leadership. I have never had anyone show me from scripture that what I say here is not correct. George Washingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09408308975569715587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-88861470148556045772014-11-22T14:07:00.425-07:002014-11-22T14:07:00.425-07:00The loosened tongue of anonimity feels like courag...The loosened tongue of anonimity feels like courage, but is merely a more open display of cowardice. <br /><br />If a person doesn't even buy their ideas enough to attach their own name to them, there is no reason I should buy their ideas either.<br /><br />Mike HamillAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-51491921847763155692014-11-22T12:27:26.369-07:002014-11-22T12:27:26.369-07:00Excellent point.
And those Christ accused, the &...Excellent point. <br /><br />And those Christ accused, the "traitors to the true religion," were in fact the legitimate priesthood hierarchy of the day. These were the Lord's covenant people. <br /><br />They had the true priesthood, the temple, the ordinances, lots of rules for daily living, and a society completely based upon their rules and practices to tell who was "worthy" and who was not. <br /><br />And they were corrupt. <br /><br />So in keeping with the prophetic pattern, first John and then Christ came from obscurity, without credentials, pedigree, hierarchal authority, name, fame, or earthly honor, and they taught truth—even when that truth went against the practices of the "true" religion of the day. <br /><br />And both were shunned, hated, persecuted and killed by those of the "true" religion. <br />Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-29499351530783806222014-11-22T11:58:12.379-07:002014-11-22T11:58:12.379-07:00Christ used satire against those who were traitors...Christ used satire against those who were traitors to the true religion. <br /><br />for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-84182662232797172062014-11-21T21:41:52.717-07:002014-11-21T21:41:52.717-07:00I would love to add my request to those above, it ...I would love to add my request to those above, it seems that anytime someone wants to post a negative, fearful, finger pointing comment on this blog it is 1. Posted by someone named Anonymous and 2. Almost never points out specifically what they have found to be in error. Please stop hiding behind your anonymous account and identify what it is that you see is incorrect. <br /><br />I learn so much from those that use the scriptures to explain their point of view and it is so helpful to see the explanations of those same scriptures from another's point of view. When thoughts and ideas can be explored without fear, we can all take what we believe to be the truth to our Father in Heaven for confirmation or correction. There is nothing to fear!<br /><br />Let the learning begin. :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10799907046670257005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-51588810548510098742014-11-21T18:19:37.561-07:002014-11-21T18:19:37.561-07:00It's a deal! Probably easier to listen to me w...It's a deal! Probably easier to listen to me when wearing muffs anyway. Let's do it. I'll give you a call.Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-45717113385801116662014-11-21T18:07:53.034-07:002014-11-21T18:07:53.034-07:00I agree with Gary Gibson, if there is malice withi...I agree with Gary Gibson, if there is malice within anything Adrian has written, please point it out so we may all stand corrected.<br /><br />Thank you, Brent HansenBrent Hansennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-28922009211426059762014-11-21T18:04:50.421-07:002014-11-21T18:04:50.421-07:00You've written plenty in your blog posts that ...You've written plenty in your blog posts that makes me wonder how a person could use so many words to say so little, and I have a few questions about your understanding of doctrine, but this is not the forum. I've got a steel dueling tree that's rusting in my garage that needs to be shot at, Tausha has my number, call me if you care to, I'm not assigning myself to be your home teacher, I do love you and her, and would rather talk while expending live rounds in the Kuna high desert. I've heard you are a good shot with a pistol, I've only been beat once, by your brother Paxton, I'd like to put your aim to the test, see if it's off the mark. :) GarthAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-39079730399806523152014-11-21T16:36:19.050-07:002014-11-21T16:36:19.050-07:00In a general sense, yes. I'm calling everyone ...In a general sense, yes. I'm calling everyone to repent, abandon unbelief, and turn to Christ. <br /><br />In a personal sense? No. I'm not pointing any fingers at you or finding fault. Far from it. I only hope to express appreciation for your kindness.<br /><br />If I've written something in my blog posts that you feels calls you to repentance, I would suggest you take up the matter with the Lord. <br /><br />Keep in mind, repentance has much more to do with turning more fully to God than it has to do with all the things we do wrong. When we turn to God, we gain more light and truth, which is the best cure for our sinful tendencies.Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-1036797083231975162014-11-21T15:52:18.414-07:002014-11-21T15:52:18.414-07:00Are you calling me to repent? GarthAre you calling me to repent? GarthAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-65353411218084708172014-11-21T15:30:12.638-07:002014-11-21T15:30:12.638-07:00I'm not able to discern any deception in word ...I'm not able to discern any deception in word nor intent, nor do I perceive any darkness here.<br /><br />Please do this brother and others a service and shine a light on exactly where it is, so we may examine it, ponder over it, and seek divine confirmation where the spirit of the message is off.<br /><br />If you present light, it should be easily discernible, if not I must conclude you are looking through a dark glass.<br /><br />Gary GibsonGary Gibsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11045914472780930389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-84138045699123488172014-11-21T14:45:38.430-07:002014-11-21T14:45:38.430-07:00This is a quote from someone who has been down the...This is a quote from someone who has been down the Snuffer rabbit hole and it is applicable to this blog.<br />Deception to be the best deception must resemble the truth so closely as to only be off in the spirit of the message, while the words seem difficult to refute. The words of Frodo Baggins to Boromir; "I know what you would say. And it would seem like wisom but for the warning in my heart."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-68046190333927901982014-11-21T13:39:24.526-07:002014-11-21T13:39:24.526-07:00Thank you for your post. This is a good reminder t...Thank you for your post. This is a good reminder to me to be very careful in how I interact with other human beings. What a terrible ordeal for you and your wife! I could feel your pain, but I could also feel that Christ walking you through this. Sometimes, the darkest trials give us the closest relationship with the Savior. My heart hurts for you, but I'm so thankful for your courage in sharing your story and giving others a place to seek comfort also.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-33279186674141471462014-11-21T13:00:30.982-07:002014-11-21T13:00:30.982-07:00No matter how carefully worded you can't make ...No matter how carefully worded you can't make some messages "smooth" enough to go down easy. I've enjoyed reading your blog- I haven't found anything radical enough for me to have expected the anger and apparent tell-tale behavior you've reported experiencing. God bless. Jessiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14910206851169799831noreply@blogger.com