tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post5976553218897256381..comments2024-03-26T14:29:25.921-06:00Comments on To The Remnant: Restoration ScripturesAdrian Larsenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-15202177216368057762017-04-15T17:35:23.143-06:002017-04-15T17:35:23.143-06:00Please give your source for the 1831 quote and lin...Please give your source for the 1831 quote and link <br /><br />Thank you Libertyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00066304123102324827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-47592490876968537582017-04-02T12:53:38.851-06:002017-04-02T12:53:38.851-06:00Anonymous-
They'll all tell you that Denver i...Anonymous-<br /><br />They'll all tell you that Denver is a "messenger" and not a prophet yet from the commentary and awe, it's apparent they view him this way. <br /><br />Your comment about a Lamanite prophet arising and taking his "rightful" position is an interpretation but I don't believe is correct either.Remnant of Josephnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-55863311172980662192017-03-30T13:38:32.696-06:002017-03-30T13:38:32.696-06:00Hi Adrian,
Thanks for taking questions. So in con...Hi Adrian,<br /><br />Thanks for taking questions. So in connection with the new scriptures I see this verse quoted a lot:<br /><br />57. And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—<br /><br />I see the phrase "the former commandments" used a lot, but no one ever explains what that means. <br /><br />Can you explain how you define "the former commandments"? In your opinion, what is it referring to? <br /><br />And do you know how Denver defines it? (Preferably give me his explanation and a reference to where he says it. I have looked but can't find anything.)<br /><br />Thank you. Tananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-30109487202859072922017-03-27T17:02:19.115-06:002017-03-27T17:02:19.115-06:00These are not new scriptures ... it is a new compi...These are not new scriptures ... it is a new compilation. Since you can get the bible with all of Joseph translations from another source, the new part is Denver's revelations being added which changes ancient text. Joseph did not do that ... he clarified but did not add to ancient text. Nor did Joseph remove Song of Solomon which is a very important book to those who are old testament scholars and understand Hebrew and Jewish culture. Joseph made a mistake because he is mortal. Do you not all remember that he was chastised by the Lord several times, do you not realize that he had false revelations? It happens to the best ... there is no INFALLIBLE mortal, not Joseph, not Denver, not me, not you. <br /><br />It is my understanding that the fullness of the gospel was contained in the JS translation of the bible and the Book of Mormon (doesn't mention D&C nor Pearl of Great Price)<br /><br />I cannot covenant to accept the new compilation with Denver's revelations for I do not believe they are scripture - they are his own personal revelations. To put Denver's revelations in you are covenanting that he has stewardship over you ... that he is a prophet ... and it is a serious matter.<br /><br />Denver never speaks of the lamanite prophet that arises and take his rightful position, nor does he speak of D&C 77:14 which identifies who restores all things and gathers Israel --- it not us gentiles, but the John the Beloved.<br /><br />May we all get rid of idolatry and only have in our hearts to worship the God of heaven and earth and no man. When we lay everything on the altar to know God, then he can reveal to us the higher things, the mysteries and show us the path we are to take. <br /><br />Continue in your pondering and prayers and let go of idolatry and you will all be led to do what God wants you to do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-69228350943879431142017-03-27T11:31:28.948-06:002017-03-27T11:31:28.948-06:00You can delete all that could be or have been inte...You can delete all that could be or have been interpreted as unhelpful to the cause. The one specifically meant was the comment about Denver starting a church. Thanks again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-76220027447224155362017-03-27T11:26:11.848-06:002017-03-27T11:26:11.848-06:00There is a new download titled “Scripture, Prophec...There is a new download titled “Scripture, Prophecy and Covenant” available in the downloads section of Denver Snuffer's website. It is a brief exposition on accepting scripture as covenant.<br /><br />Here's a link to the paper:<br /><br />http://denversnuffer.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Scripture-Prophecy-and-Covenant.pdfAdrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-55997905207174901972017-03-27T08:29:58.046-06:002017-03-27T08:29:58.046-06:00Hi Fellowship, I'll be glad to remove whatever...Hi Fellowship, I'll be glad to remove whatever you ask. Your request wasn't clear though; did you want me to remove a certain comment or all of them? Please let me know...Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-24887666947790510772017-03-27T08:27:19.052-06:002017-03-27T08:27:19.052-06:00Fellowship:
A potent thought came to my mind while...Fellowship:<br />A potent thought came to my mind while reading your post, that I thought worth sharing: there is a tremendous power in the lack of a central organization, it also places the burden on us, because we cannot trust someone else to set errors aright.<br />To quote you: "You go to McDonalds and a group of men who own the eatery (scripture committee) stand and your conversation goes like this:<br /><br />You: I'd like a hamburger with everything on it and a water please."<br /><br />I know it is a parallel, but here observe that you are already going to someone else with a preconceived notion already in mind with what you want! Why are you going to them in the first place if you already know what you want (or what you think the Lord wants)? Would it not be better to self-organize and create your own hamburger and water combo? Call a conference and sustain it, if you so desire. But recognize that the impetus is on us as individuals to take responsibility, not to rely upon others to do the work and then complain when they do it differently than we would have. It is silly to expect to do it the exact same as we would do.<br />This other group has self organized and spent countless hours over the course of over a year and have created what they think is pleasing to the Lord. How grateful we should be for their efforts. Even if it is riddled with errors. Maybe the Lord's whole purpose behind the effort is to trigger YOU to rise up and get a calling to set the whole thing right! It will be a lot of work, and you will then be subject to ridicule, but go and do the work! Show us what you feel is right! Not through explaining how others are wrong but through what is right. There is no one stopping you from making your own set of scriptures. Make it so good we are persuaded. Go before the Lord and beg him until he gives YOU a revelation to act, then you can include it as part this new work. Every failing with the restoration edition can be fixed by a "fellowship hamburger-and-water-only edition", please go and do the work. We need all the help we can get.Jimmy Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15183762666083430831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-82310451587193093592017-03-27T06:22:27.986-06:002017-03-27T06:22:27.986-06:00"I'm confident that between now and Septe..."I'm confident that between now and September, things will become much more clear. So I urge patience and study."<br /><br />I second this. <br /><br />If truth can cut it's own way, then we should let it run it's course. In the mean time, one thing we can all agree on is that all volumes of scripture, no matter the version, teach patience and loving our neighbors. We should be primarily focused on that before advancing our views to others. <br /><br />Thanks for your blog.Jeffrey Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07909554074722585101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-39186399056005410232017-03-27T03:44:39.515-06:002017-03-27T03:44:39.515-06:00Hi Adrian,
Denver posted a rebuttal to his not st...Hi Adrian,<br /><br />Denver posted a rebuttal to his not starting a church in this post: http://denversnuffer.com/2017/03/vitality-of-ideas/<br /><br />I feel his comment settled the matter. Could you please remove the I posted with this account? Thank you for providing a place where people can give their perspective and gather how other people see things. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-4452731624486928942017-03-26T21:43:42.254-06:002017-03-26T21:43:42.254-06:00Since this requires that we all study out the matt...Since this requires that we all study out the matter. Maybe it is a matter for any one of us to take these new scriptures and begin the process of sifting through, ponder, pray and fast continually. Are we really wanting this to be proven by scripture that it is of God before we actually pick these new scriptures up to study them out for ourselves and determine whether it is right? Or whether we should accept them in covenant? This is definitely no small task but it has been only a week. I dare say even 5 1/2 months may barely be sufficient time for any of us to search it out, understand it and have anything confirmed by the power of the Holy Ghost. Is it scripturally based? I can't answer that myself. But even as I began to read through the new scriptures something within myself began to stir unlike anything I have ever felt. It was literally like a fire was burning. Just my experience. The idea of making a covenant on this is actually frightening for me and I wondered if it's right. <br />Since God is not trifling with us then I think it is up to us not to be asking man for proof of anything from the scriptures and asking the one source that can give the answers, from the scriptures. If you have prayed and fasted even in the past week and not received anything then it may require the next few months to seek that answer out. <br />I read from PTR pg 335 in my testimony at the conference. Sometimes God offers up contradictions. If you think you are certain He will make you uncertain. If you are comfortable He will make you uncomfortable. Until you/we are finally broken enough to receive the answer and sometimes only just in time. What if this is one of those circumstances for all of us? God will not sift us out, we will do that ourselves. Zion is not going to be an easy thing to come to and this is only the beginning. We have to break ourselves before God so that He can make us His and into a Zion people. Yes this is a serious matter. Making a covenant is no small thing. <br />Please know that these are only my thoughts. Paulanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-73809198883512475262017-03-26T12:55:19.366-06:002017-03-26T12:55:19.366-06:00Jeremiah,
Family does not take precedence over Go...Jeremiah,<br /><br />Family does not take precedence over God. I recall Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son, just as the MOST HIGH sacrificed His Son. Christ said he was not come to bring peace on this earth, but a sword, and set at variance families. The followers of CHRIST can expect to find enemies inside their own families. I have. We are saved as individuals, not families. The only family that is forever is the family of GOD.<br />The fellowships can accept or reject this section, but a true apostle is never released from his calling, just look at John the Beloved. He has been away from his family for thousands of years.<br /><br />John Scottjstcommentaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02512182618919698191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-18593357144281140952017-03-25T22:26:15.176-06:002017-03-25T22:26:15.176-06:00Dear Adrian,
We want to sincerely thank you for t...Dear Adrian,<br /><br />We want to sincerely thank you for taking the time to answer some of our questions. Please accept our apology for the anonymity. It is not out of cowardice but to protect some of those involved and if it weakens our points, it must remain. <br /><br />Please know with 100% assurance that we want to do right in the sight of the Lord. Since the scripture announcement the covenant has been on our minds, in our fasting, and in our continual prayers day and night. We don't take this lightly. Typing leaves out the expression of our voice and the feeling of our motives. Our desire is the Lord. Our intent is to make sure we don't become what many of us have left behind - the corporate LDS Church. And when we see things that remind us of that past life, familiar feelings return and we come to a screeching halt and question inconsistencies which may appear faithless to some. <br /><br />We can see that we have not yet been able to articulate our main issue. We have come up with an analogy that is incredibly poor but the very best we could illustrate with. Here it is:<br /><br />Let's say that the Lord tells you to go to McDonalds and place an order (covenant). Through the scriptures He tells you that one day you will need to order the hamburger with everything on it (the fullness of the scriptures aka the full revision of the Bible by Joseph Smith). You will also need to get a water (the covenant of the Book of Mormon 3 Nephi 21). <br /><br />You go to McDonalds and a group of men who own the eatery (scripture committee) stand and your conversation goes like this:<br /><br />You: I'd like a hamburger with everything on it and a water please.<br /><br />The group of men: Sure - no problem. Here's your happy meal. <br /><br />You: The Lord told me that I needed a hamburger with everything on it and a water ONLY. I don't need the happy meal.<br /><br />The group of men: Yes, okay. This is how you have to take the hamburger and water. We have spent a long time working on the happy meal concept and the french fries, toy, and sliced apples complete the meal.<br /><br />You: Can you show me where the Lord directed that there should be a combo-happy meal? All I can see is He said "hamburger with everything on it and a water". I LOVE all this extra stuff. But it's not what the Lord is asking of me. You will lose my business if you force me to accept MORE than what the Lord counseled me to order. <br /><br />The group of men: You must take it all or face peril. It was from the Lord. <br /><br />You: Can you show me where the Lord declared I must have the Happy Meal for my salvation?<br /><br />The group of men: We obtained it. Go and pray about it and receive your own confirmation.<br /><br />You: Sure. Okay, can you show me BY the scriptures? All I can find is that He wanted 1. A Hamburger with everything on it, and 2. A water. If you can prove to me, using the scriptures, that the Lord wants me to order the Hamburger and Water WITH the combo-Happy Meal. I will do it.<br /><br />The group of men: .......<br /><br />As you can see, that example was very inadequate. But we are seeking to align all things with the scriptures. This is why we left the LDS church. Things don't align with scripture. PLEASE TAKE NOTICE: When the Happy Meal Combo aligns with scripture - You.Will.Have.Consensus. En masse. This issue SHOULD NOT be sifting people. What sifts people is when there is no foundation in the scriptures to support the command. WE WANT TO COVENANT. WE WANT TO BE THE LORD'S PEOPLE. Prove it with the scriptures. PLEASE. <br /><br />Sincerest thanks for your time. <br /><br />-a fellowship of believersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-63723184829881138632017-03-25T20:24:47.414-06:002017-03-25T20:24:47.414-06:00In Denver's printed notes from the St. George ...In Denver's printed notes from the St. George talk, he clearly and specifically identifies the "Fulness of the Scriptures" as "every revision Joseph made to the Bible."Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-19059303299481986902017-03-25T19:15:22.276-06:002017-03-25T19:15:22.276-06:00Hi Tana,
I honestly don't know the full impor...Hi Tana,<br /><br />I honestly don't know the full import of the covenant that will be offered. Based on the fact that it involves the scriptures, it will require, at a minimum, acceptance of God's word. Beyond that, I'm still learning and seeking further light and knowledge from God. <br /><br />I know there is a lot of excitement and debate, and many unanswered questions. I'm confident that between now and September, things will become much more clear. So I urge patience and study. <br /><br />When the Lord offers a covenant, it is incumbent upon Him to explain the terms He is asking us to accept. I believe that will happen in clarity, and we will have the opportunity to accept or reject what the Lord offers. <br /><br />Until then, we might to King Benjamin's covenant as a potential example.Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-29187731865790227472017-03-25T19:11:17.297-06:002017-03-25T19:11:17.297-06:00To me, at least, it's clear that Denver's ...To me, at least, it's clear that Denver's usage of the name "fulness of the scriptures" refers specifically to the complete JST. He made a point of noting that the full body of Joseph's revisions to the bible has never been published before, as you quoted above. Therefore it is now available for the first time, as part of the Restoration Scriptures project. <br /><br />But the much more important point is that debating the name and usage of the name is really beside the point. The content is infinitely more important than the name of the project. We could go back and forth about the name of what is offered, and never receive any saving truth, or we can examine what is offered and feast on God's word. Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-32763104518183445672017-03-25T17:56:32.241-06:002017-03-25T17:56:32.241-06:00Hi Adrian,
Thanks for posting these questions. I...Hi Adrian, <br /><br />Thanks for posting these questions. I am on my second time listening to Denver's talk in St. George. After his post today I have a question and I am thinking you will be the best person to answer since I can't contact Denver directly. <br /><br />My question is about his post today (Teaching). He said that:<br />The Book of Mormon is intended to be received as a covenant. The covenant MUST first be delivered to and accepted by the gentiles in order for the gentiles to be numbered among the remnant of God’s people. (3 Ne. 21:22.) The gentiles must have a covenant, or they cannot assist in any way to establish the New Jerusalem. (Id. v. 23.) It will be former gentiles who are called “Ephriam” once restored, to whom all other tribes must come to receive their part in the covenant. (D&C 133:30-34.) This will happen once the gentiles have been given the land as their land of promise, an inheritance from God given only to covenant people. (3 Ne. 21:22.) At present, the gentiles have been condemned and rejected by the Lord. Therefore, some few must repent and return.<br /><br />So my question is - is this one of the things we are voting for at the conference? I feel totally confused. Denver could have easily held a vote at the St. George conference and had it be unanimous. We ALL hold the Book of Mormon as foundational. I think this entire movement was founded on 3 Nephi 21 and our personal desire to accept the Book of Mormon. At least that's what I did when I read PTHG. I knelt and repented and accepted it. All those I associate with in this movement have done similarly. I'd even wager you personally have as well, no?<br /><br />Can you help me know EXACTLY what the vote is in September? If you had to write it in simple sentences with numbers, (1. 2. 3.) to make your point (I need things spelled out simply and written in total plainness to understand). <br /><br />Thanks for your time. Tananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-71422504013753039002017-03-25T13:27:43.881-06:002017-03-25T13:27:43.881-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-32741806912469927842017-03-25T12:58:34.179-06:002017-03-25T12:58:34.179-06:00Denver's words:
Transcribed from the talk by...Denver's words: <br /><br />Transcribed from the talk by Denver Snuffer, Things to keep us awake at night. 13 minute mark. (punctuation and emphasis mine): <br /><br />"Joseph restored the Book of Mormon as his first assignment. But he was required also to revise the Bible. Joseph referred to the revision of the Bible using the term, "the fulness of the scriptures". The Book of Mormon he called "the Book of Mormon". The revision to the Bible he called, "the fullness of the scriptures". In the minutes of an 1831 conference Joseph made this statement: "God had often sealed up the heavens because of covetousness in the church. Said the Lord would cut his work short in righteousness and except the church receive the fulness of the scriptures, they would yet fall."<br /><br />"The fulness of the scriptures or the Bible he was then revising, has never been fully in print. Even the version that has been published by the RLDS church misses several of the revisions Joseph made. All of them and in addition, a handful of revisions that Joseph made orally during talks that he gave in the Nauvoo era, for the first time, are published in the new set of scriptures in the volume, the Old Testament and half the volume called the New Testament and the Book of Mormon. <br /><br />The fulness of the scriptures, without which the church would fall, are for the first time now available."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-70853541361207548022017-03-25T09:24:00.733-06:002017-03-25T09:24:00.733-06:00I'm not aware that I have any "followers&...I'm not aware that I have any "followers" or that I "lead" anyone of any species.Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-68708428154387123912017-03-25T01:16:14.925-06:002017-03-25T01:16:14.925-06:00Adrian, There are plenty of your followers that do...Adrian, There are plenty of your followers that do the same for their own reasons. I actually would prefer that your followers "come out" as well instead of pretending. They're as wolves in sheep's clothing. <br /><br />Anonymous Amynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-85697986612216287962017-03-25T00:29:31.063-06:002017-03-25T00:29:31.063-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-77164384816266607162017-03-25T00:27:21.356-06:002017-03-25T00:27:21.356-06:00"And they shall remain under this condemnatio..."And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written (D&C 84:57)<br /><br />I believe the part about BOTH the Book of Mormon AND the "former commandments which I have given them" requires us to value and accept ALL "which [the Lord has] written." If we want to throw off the condemnation and receive the covenant we must value and accept ALL of God's word. Why wouldn't we do that?Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-29555676921597129182017-03-25T00:24:06.081-06:002017-03-25T00:24:06.081-06:00As was pointed out in St. George, nobody has yet p...As was pointed out in St. George, nobody has yet published the fulness of what Joseph Smith provided in terms of revisions to the Bible. So the new scriptures project is the first time the Fulness of the Scriptures has been published on earth. The project also includes corrections and revisions to other scriptural volumes, new scriptures, and a return to more original versions, as noted.<br /><br />The committee is calling this the "Restoration Edition" of the scriptures. I don't see anywhere they are calling this project the Fulness of the Scriptures. Have I missed something? Or are you claiming something that simply isn't true?Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-31311423114880323602017-03-25T00:18:20.112-06:002017-03-25T00:18:20.112-06:00The Lord defined his church in D&C 10:67-68. I...The Lord defined his church in D&C 10:67-68. It is those who repent and come unto Him. Therefore, no man can "form" Christ's church. When Denver said he would not form a church, he was clearly referring to an organization, hierarchy, corporation, or the like to "compete" with the LDS church. <br /><br />His statement does not preclude the Lord from calling His gathered people His church.Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.com