tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post5928134703326408329..comments2024-03-26T14:29:25.921-06:00Comments on To The Remnant: You Might Be Listening to a Deceiver if...Adrian Larsenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-52602825505359324012019-01-11T20:51:19.082-07:002019-01-11T20:51:19.082-07:00I don't speak for the Remnant, but as for myse...I don't speak for the Remnant, but as for myself and many of the people I know, the Word of Wisdom applies, as written. The word of wisdom approves wine for sacraments (plural, I might add), and has language that approves mild barley drinks (beer.) Distilled spirits are spoken against, and to be avoided. And it is given as good advice, not commandment. That's all how the revelation reads. I can't think of any good reason to apply it in some other way that is not spelled out in the revelation.Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-8126546854333101562019-01-11T17:46:49.239-07:002019-01-11T17:46:49.239-07:00Adrien, what is the Remnant's view on wine or ...Adrien, what is the Remnant's view on wine or alcohol?Austin Smithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-33246642545295699032019-01-10T23:22:08.888-07:002019-01-10T23:22:08.888-07:00As far as I am aware, Denver uses wine for the sac...As far as I am aware, Denver uses wine for the sacrament. Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-85486239486402092822019-01-10T23:20:22.508-07:002019-01-10T23:20:22.508-07:00Is it true that Denver drinks wine? What is his ta...Is it true that Denver drinks wine? What is his take on wine?Austin Smithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-70931973486721733442018-12-31T01:33:18.233-07:002018-12-31T01:33:18.233-07:00Your conclusions are based on faulty thinking. I d...Your conclusions are based on faulty thinking. I don't fully understand it either but it is interesting that the promises made to the House of Israel come via Jacob who had children of four women. Perplexing no doubt but still a chosen people to bless the whole earth. Leenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-16090909216798955912018-12-21T07:04:07.560-07:002018-12-21T07:04:07.560-07:00You might be listening to a deceiver if...
This s...You might be listening to a deceiver if...<br /><br />This so called prophet produces a revelation or new scripture which blatantly contradicts the JST of the Bible or any other previously revealed scripture.<br /><br />Or if this person makes comments like, "Everything I say I have on good authority, if I'm merely expressing my opinion I will say so." <br /><br />This is setting oneself up as a light for others to follow and therefore priestcraft.<br /><br />The scriptures say that a true prophet will say, "thus saith the Lord" before speaking for God, not say or imply that everything he teaches is from God unless he specifically says it isn't.LDS Watchmanhttp://www.ldswatchman.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-83322573037515168582018-12-16T10:36:37.648-07:002018-12-16T10:36:37.648-07:00I think your list is great. Taken together, we can...I think your list is great. Taken together, we can veritably discern a deceiver. Of course, the Holy Ghost is the final arbiter. But some of these items on an individual level may be more related to ignorance than deception. Paul (as Saul) comes to mind. Even after his conversion, it probably took time before he was the great missionary we see in scripture. For a time, he was likely a babe without knowledge but with pure intent.<br /><br />How many of our brethren and sisters fit that category? We must also discern to allow for their growth in Christ, despite lacking knowledge, and those who are true deceivers.Peter Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04116452836358253375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-29738098196309172672018-12-15T08:58:13.752-07:002018-12-15T08:58:13.752-07:00Hello Curtis,
Great question. Perhaps there is mo...Hello Curtis,<br /><br />Great question. Perhaps there is more here than some consider. Maybe it’s best to use the newest and most pure revelation to understand the oldest. Look at the Answer to the Prayer for Covenant for the correction to the D&C section regarding this topic. You’ll notice mention of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. You will see mention of two women in relation to each of them: 1 being a mother companion, and 1 being a female counterpart. Perhaps we underestimate the corruption of the scriptures, especially the oldest, that has been done at the hands of corrupt men. Christ mentioned in the Answer to the Prayer for Covenant that even the Book of<br />Mormon still has errors but that there was “beauty” in the language given to Joseph. And the Book of Mormon is “most correct” and it has errors? The only reliable source to dig out the Truth to the answers of your very sincere and good questions is Jesus Christ. He will teach you using the least corrupted scriptures and the discernment of the Holy Ghost to lead you on the path for Truth and the answers you seek. I wish you well on that noble quest brother. OpenMindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13245205813750451843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-52275073837393085922018-12-14T05:28:21.414-07:002018-12-14T05:28:21.414-07:00As polygamy has been brought up I have a question ...As polygamy has been brought up I have a question that has bothered me. First let me state I do not believe in polygamy and do no.t believe Joseph was a polygamist. However when I look at the scriptures I find that Abraham and Jacob had multiple wives yet we look to them as Fathers in Heaven. Just looking for any insight others migh.t have Curtisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-18247251922129409262018-12-13T11:22:21.435-07:002018-12-13T11:22:21.435-07:00Path one:
If abused, fire back at your “adversary...Path one:<br /><br />If abused, fire back at your “adversary.” You are right after all, and he is a deceiver. You can see the lies and falseness in him.<br />Your adversary doubles down. The volleys back and forth continue. Eventually it comes to blows and bloodshed, misery and annihilation. <br />Death.<br /><br />Path two:<br /><br />Bless your adversary. Find middle ground. Do good to them. Dwell on pleasantries. Your adversary softens. You come to understand him and why he thinks as he does. You respect his beliefs even though you don’t adhere to them. Eventually, your love for him transcends what you both believe. Doing things differently, you come together in peace, creativity and love. <br />Life. <br />Zion.<br /><br />Which path are you walking?<br />Which path ought you to be walking?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-65059614535218819732018-12-12T15:21:53.689-07:002018-12-12T15:21:53.689-07:00Polygamy is one of the top anti-Christ ideas I can...Polygamy is one of the top anti-Christ ideas I can think of. Specifics of why that is so is yet to be fully realized or understood.<br /><br />Denver doesn’t just believe this is an adulterous practice forbidden by God, it IS literally an adulterous practice by definition and condemned by God. <br /><br />Some claim this is a celestial practice and we aren’t “prepared” for it, but that in some “higher” kingdom it gets introduced. That,also, couldn’t be further from the Truth.OpenMindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13245205813750451843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-55946884956953705282018-12-12T05:04:50.419-07:002018-12-12T05:04:50.419-07:00Denver’s experience brings up a couple of points w...Denver’s experience brings up a couple of points where knowledge is key. In speaking of polygamy, I was reading Jacob 1 paragraph 4, yesterday in the RE of the Book of Mormon. It was clear to me that polygamy was and is a wicked practice and is abominable to God. Yet how many accept that The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS was justified in participating in such a practice. Satan likes to lull us away into carnal security. I can’t tell you how many people I spoke with, telling them it was a way to get women safely across the plains out West, portraying wickedness as righteousness. <br /><br />Not to mention compusion, when it is used, now I immediately think of it as an evil practice. The glory of God is intelligence or light and truth. A man is not saved in ignorance. It is to all of our benefit to arm ourselves with truth and light in warfare against the adversary. In my above comments, I was addressing general conversation between fellow believers striving to accumulate truth. <br /><br />Denver’s example portrays the evil that exists when error is taken to a whole other level. We do have to be on guard because when we reject truth, evil spirits will know more than we do and consequently will be able to take us down to hell. That hell can just be a deep sleep, preventing us from rising up. Either way we are damned. Denver said in his commentary that he recognized the false deceiving spirit was trying to gain authority over others. Satan always uses our ignorance as a tool to overpower us. Good reasons to cloth ourselves with the truth of the scriptures, so we will instantly be able to detect such ploys and put them in their place, and give no heed to them. It goes in the garbage file. <br />Just readdressing comments to be more applicable to the purpose of the posting. Apparently these guys are making the rounds. <br />Thanks, LisaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-10074725588233155032018-12-11T22:59:15.698-07:002018-12-11T22:59:15.698-07:00A good movie that comes to mind is Catch Me If You...A good movie that comes to mind is Catch Me If You Can. Based on a true story, Leonardo DeCaprio’s character becomes a world renowned forger. Through looking the part, he becomes a doctor, lawyer, and piolet. His claim to fame was the counterfeit checks he created stealing millions from the companies he knocked off.<br /><br />Ultimately, he was able look the part and then become the part. When he looked the part, no one seemed to take enough time to question. If they took time to think through it and see the holes in his story, he could have been discovered much sooner. <br /><br />Our biggest problem with being deceived is our naivety. Being naive is about experience, observation, knowledge, and zeal. When we are naive we aren’t experienced with wrestling between truth and error. We don’t observe what is behind the suit. We don’t have sufficient knowledge to see the light from the darkness and we zealously think things must be done in haste. <br /><br />“A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge, for if he does not get knowledge, he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world.” TPJS, p. 217.<br /><br />Being naive is often mistaken as a virtue of trust or faith. It is not. It is not a character strength, but a weakness. It will get you beaten up by the monster at the pass. Being naive will get you caught by some unseen power who isn’t interested in you or your salvation. <br /><br />The best remedy is to be like Mormon and be sober. A sober mind doesn’t allow others to catch them in their ignorance. Bryce Bartelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02749406801032541939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-50791121344050263582018-12-11T21:32:03.446-07:002018-12-11T21:32:03.446-07:00A timely and vital reminder, Adrian. Here two days...A timely and vital reminder, Adrian. Here two days after you posted your collection of Jeff Foxworthy-style observations, Denver Snuffer posted a curious note on his blog describing how a couple of Canadians, Joseph Rockwell and Dean Taylor, sent emissaries to Mr. Snuffer’s office with a short message for him in the language of scripture. In line with the reasoning in your post, Snuffer says he rejected the message commanding him to stay out of the Canadians’ way because of their fruits. They promote polygamy among other things, which Snuffer believes is an adulterous practice forbidden by God. He told his visitors the spirit of their message was false and thus he absolutely would not obey the purported commandment. <br /><br />Whether you agree with Denver Snuffer or not, his experience is an example of putting Christ’s rule of thumb to judge by one's fruits in action. I’m personally grateful Denver Snuffer shared with us. Your post is relevant to me for the same reason, Adrian. I’ve heard reports of these same men laboring to persuade folks in the remnant movement—both in America and Europe—to follow them and their beliefs. In a universe based on agency, Rockwell and Taylor get to preach whatever they like. God wouldn’t even stop them were they to claim they were Jesus Christ himself. Remarkably, scripture alerts us not only to false spirits in the last days, but to false Christs. The good news is we get to choose as we will. Believers in Jesus Christ will be well served by judging by the fruits.<br /><br />http://denversnuffer.com/Pattynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-80930197848303600142018-12-11T09:56:16.712-07:002018-12-11T09:56:16.712-07:00Yeah sure. I used an extreme example. Please see p...Yeah sure. I used an extreme example. Please see past it. But my point was that there is more to spirituality than whether you are communicating with God or communicating with the devil. Although to Adrian's credit he pointed out the grey when he's mentioned angels possibly having their own agenda. I mesm one of highest ranking of them fell. <br /><br />So my point was mainly that as the scriptures teach we are to know God and when Jesus was on earth he spoke so much material in parables instead of directly saying what He meant. <br /><br />It's a verv infant stage of spirituality if one assmues everything is literal and that Jesus/God doesn't speak in parables any more. It's actually the more go to. <br /><br />Another example, A man or woman could have a dream where they think they saw last days events and they were in them. A flood of water came, an earthquake happened etc. Adrian pointed out once on a blog post about Jerusalem fever or something like that about people going pyscho when they go to the Holy Land thinking they had a calling. <br /><br />Anyway, God could literally show them a dream like that and it could be very symbolic of other things. One that doesn't further pray for insights and has an out of check ego might get that Jerusalem fever and think that they are playing a central role full filling prophecy. Yet a more wise experienced person may pray for insight and learn that a wave of emotions is coming and that the foundation they are on is going to quake and tremble and that it was a forewarning from God that is going to soon symbolically play out soon. Thanks for asking clarification. Bryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-57001870589443054882018-12-11T07:11:12.101-07:002018-12-11T07:11:12.101-07:00I’m confused about your comment here, where you cl...I’m confused about your comment here, where you claim that God could tell a married man, behold your wife, and be referring to another woman.<br /><br />This definitely sounds deceptive. Can you clarify?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-11237017146194579682018-12-10T21:15:13.254-07:002018-12-10T21:15:13.254-07:00Hi Adrian,
Thanks for the reminder. Truth is a f...Hi Adrian, <br />Thanks for the reminder. Truth is a funny thing. Everyone cannot discern it. It is a double edged sword that cuts both ways and divides asunder. It basically divides. Because I have seen how damaging it is to reject truth or a true messenger, second hand, not myself thankfully. And we hear so many ideas and speculations on our path, I have learned to file information in buckets in my head. One is truth verified by the Spirit, one is possible truth but needs further proving, one is hmmmm, interesting I’ll wait until I can find something else that aligns before giving more credibility, and the garbage file. I love to hear others ideas, but I don’t take anything into myself until it is vetted by the Spirit, a true messenger verified by the Spirit, and scripture. I think if we fear hearing new ideas we can damn ourselves. I am not a scriptorian, but I have a good barometer of discerning truth inherently. I often do not quote scripture, but I have the scriptures sort of ingested into my inward parts so to speak. If there is one thing I dislike, it’s rejection out of fear. I never fear learning more truth. I am open and honest so sometimes I offer whatever is on my mind at the time and it could seem personal or inappropriate to some. When I read the above list, I would put myself in probably every category at some point or the other as most of us could as well, if we were honest, even if unintentional. And sometimes it’s difficult to provide background or scripture references in a limited timeframe depending on the venue. The best way I have found to stay straight with the truth is to cleanse the inner vessel, receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and listen to the voice of the Lord or promptings of the Spirit to stay in alignment with all truth, our Holy Savior and Redeemer Jesus Christ. He will make course corrections when necessary. Just some thoughts. Thanks, Lisa Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-3505896820819478552018-12-10T16:33:18.678-07:002018-12-10T16:33:18.678-07:00Not to worry! It happens so often I don't even...Not to worry! It happens so often I don't even notice! Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-62371589041675776512018-12-10T16:25:49.810-07:002018-12-10T16:25:49.810-07:00Dang it I misspelled your name
Adrian in my previo...Dang it I misspelled your name<br />Adrian in my previous post. I apologize for that. OpenMindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13245205813750451843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-67986051637971061762018-12-10T13:32:15.672-07:002018-12-10T13:32:15.672-07:00Adrian,
I also would like to offer a perspective ...Adrian,<br /><br />I also would like to offer a perspective that not everyone that is wrong is out right decieved but failed to ask God for further understanding. <br /><br />Denver once spoke of 3 levels that we attain to in this life of getting information from above. I forget what he labeled them so I'm going to use the words that I describe them by. <br /><br />1. Knowledge (Someone at this level gets dreams, visions, knowledge and experiences from God, angels, revelations, etc)<br /><br />2. Wisdom/Understanding (At this level they realize that God speaks so much in parables and that they need to continually pour through what God has given and give supplication, further prayer and study into what God was telling them so that they out everything into context)<br /><br />3. A Teacher/Proven/Someone who is Sent (I know of one person that I would clasify in this area that lives today. I consider Jesus, Moses, Joseph Smith etc as peoope that were sent. These people were proven and had an actual power.)<br /><br />So like it is when Jesus was on the cross. He simply turned to John and spoke about Mary and said, "Behold your Mother". He didn't literally mean that John needed to re-enter her womb or any weird shit but in a parable sort of way was saying l, "John , please take care of my Mother" <br /><br />Likewise today God could tell a married man who has an abundance, "Behold your wife" in regards to another woman and once again it's a parable to give out of his abundance. Not permission to do weird shit. The scriptures would add clarification there. <br /><br />And a man with level 1 knowledge could jump into some weird stuff without having level 2 understanding nor seeking it and fail. I'd adventure to say that most people getting experiences with the other side are infants spiritually and at level 1. They could be deceived on some levels yes but on other levels just rushing out without understanding which can be dangerous and it's rushing the pass.Bryanhttps://intheshadowofhishand.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-64127219777671015322018-12-10T13:31:54.668-07:002018-12-10T13:31:54.668-07:00Adrian,
I'd admit that you've made some v...Adrian,<br /><br />I'd admit that you've made some very very good points in regards to discernment in the above post such as it wouldn't be something done in the middle of the night. The Lord worketh not in darkness nor in secret combinations. Also flattery being a common technique. <br /><br />On some level I'm pretty naive and I don't keep up with the drama of the movement nor do I keep up with who makes what claims. If someone made a weird claim I'd probably just chuckle a little and see amuzement in it. <br /><br />However I've noticed a lot of these posts recently seem to really focused around deceivers and the claim that they have gifts. The only part that concerns me really is that looking at the focus on those who make claims seems to villify those who are like that in general. Those who have gifts. I'm not saying you directly said any of that but that's how it appears.<br /><br />I tend to run in the crowd that are what people would call "sighted". For example my pyschic friend who is a grandma near 70 years old was born that way. Connected to other realms, across, above and below. She's been useful in ways. She's tracked down dead corpses for the FBI, said things to me that caused me to repentance and ask God to help clean me up, etc. I don't see someone like that as an enemy but as a friend. <br /><br />Likewise, on one hand I find it weird of people share too much stuff and in weird contexts but if I have a dream and I feel that there is a message for me to understand I have a friend that I'm going to call that has a photographic memory of the scriptures and I will ask him to help me understand and we will open the scriptures together. I would have no regret sharing something like that with that type of person. <br /><br />Some of the post I don't understand because angels when they come tend to focus on the message of repentance and I don't see the badge of honor in bragging that a being called you to repentance. Then as well when a being from the other side teaches they tend to quote and expound scripture. It's kind of all the same. It's not really something to be scared of. <br /><br />So I guess what I'm asking is clarification on went you are intending by your focus on this? Although you probably have much more insight of the drama that goes on behind the scenes. I tend to not get out a lot. <br />Bryanhttps://intheshadowofhishand.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-4985428134472330252018-12-10T13:31:20.881-07:002018-12-10T13:31:20.881-07:00A&C paragraph 2: “Since the days of Adam I hav...A&C paragraph 2: “Since the days of Adam I have always sought to reestablish people of covenant among the living, and therefore have desired that man should love one another, not begrudgingly, but as brothers and sisters indeed...” <br /><br />“Fruitless claimants can be safely dismissed outright”<br /><br />We feeling the love yet?<br /><br />Perhaps not so safe to dismiss a “brother” or “sister”. Perhaps the only thing to safely do is actually love them, which MIGHT not involve pulling our hair out trying to figure out if they are trying to deceive us. <br /><br />The percentage of people one thinks is trying to deceive them is a reflection of that person, not others.<br /><br />I think your post very wisely pointed that out Adrain. OpenMindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13245205813750451843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-6833053540810871812018-12-10T12:28:55.479-07:002018-12-10T12:28:55.479-07:00Thanks for this post and reminder Adrian. This ha...Thanks for this post and reminder Adrian. This happened to be a big part of a discussion held with some of our fellowship yesterday as well. Amazing how the Lord reminds and warns us all.<br />thanks!Janeenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00371055338461455376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-75489905044173523482018-12-10T12:19:42.901-07:002018-12-10T12:19:42.901-07:00Adrian:
That's a great list. I would add, they...Adrian:<br />That's a great list. I would add, they take you away from the Covenant God has made with "his people" at this time him as though they had a parallel alternative path back to God. <br /><br />McKayMc Kayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12025002791856283899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-82653391092507564322018-12-10T08:49:19.767-07:002018-12-10T08:49:19.767-07:00Perhaps I inadvertently gave the impression that t...Perhaps I inadvertently gave the impression that the volume of fruit is the qualification to look for. It is not. The Book of Mormon alone is enough to judge Joseph Smith's fruits and qualify him as a true messenger (and, I'll add, one of the most significant prophets in the history of the world.) Beyond that, his other revelations and scriptural offerings are extremely significant and must not be so easily dismissed. Therefore I disagree that his fruits are small. <br /><br />With that said, though, I agree with you that others produce large volumes of work, by which they must be tested. Of course, if there are no fruits, only grandiose claims and secret teachings, there is nothing to judge.<br /><br />My point in noting the volume of fruits, is that numerous deceivers in play right now make impressive claims, but have no fruit to judge. Others have produced material, but it is primarily about themselves, their opinions, or their claims. Yet others charge money to teach what they insist came from God. <br /><br />Those who have actually put forth what they claim came from God do us a favor, by giving us something to judge. Only then can we test the spirits, compare with scripture, take the matter up with God, and make a correct judgment. True messengers will point to Christ alone while insisting on their own insignificance.<br /><br />Fruitless claimants can be safely dismissed outright. Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.com