tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post5198659500166062105..comments2024-03-26T14:29:25.921-06:00Comments on To The Remnant: Beware the Leaven of the PhariseesAdrian Larsenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-75843994809625752042015-10-14T03:05:47.222-06:002015-10-14T03:05:47.222-06:00I think this is a great illustration of how diffic...I think this is a great illustration of how difficult it can be to separate tradition and social convention from Gospel. We're all prone to it, and I don't fault Paul. <br /><br />It's so important to learn the difference and focus on the Gospel. Only Christ can save us, and the terms he requires are a broken heart and contrite spirit. Man-made rules actually distract us by teaching us we are righteous when we keep the rules. It's hard to have a humble and broken heart when I've checked all the boxes on the righteous list. <br /><br />We all deeply, desperately need Christ.Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-58178039165334673442015-10-13T21:35:23.900-06:002015-10-13T21:35:23.900-06:00So I have a question. What was Paul doing in 1 Cor...So I have a question. What was Paul doing in 1 Corinthians 11?<br /><br />1 Corinthians 11<br /><br />4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.<br /><br /> 5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.<br /><br /> 6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.<br /><br /> 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.<br /><br />13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?<br /><br /> 14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?<br /><br /> 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.<br /><br />If I'm not mistaken Paul was reemphasizing Jewish tradition here. So according to your post Paul was a Pharisee, I know he was before he accepted Christ, but here he is speaking as a church leader. I'm glad he doesn't mention white shirts or you would have to disregard his teachings.<br /><br />Brigham<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-324873846702217422015-10-04T21:53:08.436-06:002015-10-04T21:53:08.436-06:00I would have used this post in my Gospel Doctrine ...I would have used this post in my Gospel Doctrine lesson several months ago on the scribes and Pharisees. Great insights here, Adrian. The Lord condemned the Pharisees in part for their hypocrisy. According to D&C 50:6-8, hypocrisy is more than just a passing character flaw:<br /><br /> 6 But wo unto them that are deceivers and hypocrites, for, thus saith the Lord, I will bring them to judgment.<br /><br /> 7 Behold, verily I say unto you, there are hypocrites among you, who have deceived some, which has given the adversary power; but behold such shall be reclaimed;<br /><br /> 8 But the hypocrites shall be detected and shall be cut off, either in life or in death, even as I will; and wo unto them who are cut off from my church, for the same are overcome of the world. (D&C 50:4-8)<br /><br />I was never more astonished than when I learned late last year that major sections from Ezra Taft Benson’s talk “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet” were to be included in the priesthood/ Relief Society manual for this year. In 1980 Elder Benson revealed himself a Pharisee in $500 wool suit (yes, a nod to your wonderful quip about wolves in sheep’s clothing in a previous post) when he asserted to 25,000 kids at the Marriott Center, among other things:<br /><br />1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.<br />2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.<br />3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.<br />4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.<br />5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.<br />6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.<br />7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.<br /><br />Hopefully Elder- then President Benson repented before finding himself cut off from the Church of the Lamb and being overcome of the world. It doesn’t bode well for the pharisaical tradition roaring ahead at the highest levels of the LDS church today. Their billions in investments and smooth words in General Conference will not save them or anyone who puts their trust in them. I love the comments here that the pharisaical tradition is not only the burden of those in the plush red seats but our challenge as well. God lead us to the depths of humility that he might be able to do something useful with us all.<br /><br />Pattynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-1767392725460803152015-10-03T15:55:22.417-06:002015-10-03T15:55:22.417-06:00I believe the true garment is worn as we follow th...I believe the true garment is worn as we follow the Holy Ghost. The garment is merely a symbol of following the promptings of the spirit. Why would we suddenly need more protection after we go to the temple than we did as youth when temptation is strongest? We can wear the true garment as we listen to and obey true principles. That is the only shield or protection with any efficacy.One who wondersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-16244170581520389772015-10-03T00:39:01.827-06:002015-10-03T00:39:01.827-06:00Adrian,
Yes, very apt commentary with this weeken...Adrian,<br /><br />Yes, very apt commentary with this weekend coming up. Russ Nelson has some interesting things to say about the apostleship on lds.org yesterday I thought go right along with your post. <br /><br />Thanks for the insight!Phillip Reddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02258849465797413296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-62616271352029900892015-10-02T17:31:05.329-06:002015-10-02T17:31:05.329-06:00No problem, brother. Thank you for your zeal for C...No problem, brother. Thank you for your zeal for Christ. May we all remain devoted to Him and Him alone.Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-81576404255873954912015-10-02T14:08:45.605-06:002015-10-02T14:08:45.605-06:00Adrian,
I'm sorry, I should not have jumped to...Adrian,<br />I'm sorry, I should not have jumped to conclusions. Please forgive me of my ignorance regarding your view on this topic. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06244824015861541082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-89200096894339805172015-10-02T09:19:38.434-06:002015-10-02T09:19:38.434-06:00Hi Adam,
Thanks for clarifying. But I still think...Hi Adam,<br /><br />Thanks for clarifying. But I still think you have me confused with someone else. You're preaching to the choir. You said:<br /><br />"You've done an excellent job in pointing out the tradtions of the pharisees, but you are still putting your trust in dead works and the tradtions of men in our day with regards to temple rituals. You wanted to know how you were not following Christ, that is it."<br /><br />Uhm...huh? I'm not putting any trust in temple rituals as a saving ordinance. Nor am I promoting family history/geneology for that matter. <br /><br />Thanks for your opinion, but you have only managed to repeat yourself. Can you point out any examples of me teaching or believing what you claim I teach and believe? I'm not trying to argue. I'm just trying to understand your continual accusation that I'm not believing or following the Doctrine of Christ. <br /><br />Have you read this post? http://www.totheremnant.com/2014/09/destroying-doctrine-of-christ.html<br /><br />Anyway, like I say, I'm scratching my head here and still believe you must have me confused with someone else.Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-38426286162747064042015-10-02T08:58:46.826-06:002015-10-02T08:58:46.826-06:00Adrian,
I read your whole post, and you've ma...Adrian,<br /><br />I read your whole post, and you've made many great points regarding the traditions of the pharisees. I really enjoyed your post. The reason I brought up temple rituals is because they too are a tradition of men in our day. Jesus' sacrifice ended the temple rituals associated with the law of Moses.<br /><br />You said, "There are also mysteries available from God, not made known to the world, and we should seek them. (Matthew 13:11, Alma 12:10.) Does God have secrets? Of course. Does he make them known to those who rightly seek them? Yes he does."<br /><br />Yes, God has secrets and there are many things that are not to be uttered by man, but these are NOT his saving ordinances. His saving ordinance is baptism and it is given openly to all.<br /><br />You said, "You are making the implicit assumption that I am giving heed to the traditions of men and not following Christ. I find this perplexing because you are making general statements without any reference to what you perceive I'm doing to follow the traditions of men.<br /><br />Similarly, you imply that I don't accept or follow the doctrine of Christ. I find this perplexing as well, given the lengths to which I've gone to promote and follow it."<br /><br />Christ made his doctrine clear in 3 Nephi 11: 31-39. After giving his doctrine, which is belief in him, baptism and the receiving of the Holy Ghost, he says, "whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock."<br /><br />You've asked for me to be specific. The doctrine of Christ says nothing of genealogy, work for the dead, temple sealings, endowments, etc. It is NOT of God. Jesus never taught it, and he went out of his way to say that anything "more" than what he defined as his doctrine "cometh of evil."<br /><br />You've done an excellent job in pointing out the tradtions of the pharisees, but you are still putting your trust in dead works and the tradtions of men in our day with regards to temple rituals. You wanted to know how you were not following Christ, that is it. <br /><br />The traditions of men can have such a strong hold upon us that they can blind us to the plain words of Christ, as plain as a word can be.<br /><br />Adrian, I've read many of your posts, God has given you many great insights. I'm only trying to shed light on another tradition of man, that we might all follow Christ doctrine and put off the precpets of men.<br /><br />God speedAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06244824015861541082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-91861032782217670202015-10-02T00:26:46.123-06:002015-10-02T00:26:46.123-06:00Nailed it, Brent!Nailed it, Brent!Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-55266710915511307642015-10-01T22:16:47.374-06:002015-10-01T22:16:47.374-06:00Hi Adam,
There are covenants and oaths involved ...Hi Adam, <br /><br />There are covenants and oaths involved in what God has to offer. (D&C 84:39-40, Moses 7:51, Alma 56:8 among others.) Satan offers oaths and covenants as well, as you've done an excellent job pointing out. <br /><br />There are also mysteries available from God, not made known to the world, and we should seek them. (Matthew 13:11, Alma 12:10.) Does God have secrets? Of course. Does he make them known to those who rightly seek them? Yes he does. <br /><br />That's not to say the temple ordinances are the things we should seek. They are not. They are merely symbolic representations of the real thing, as I've said before. <br /><br />But on to the real point:<br /><br />In your first comment you said the following: "Adrian, are you willing to follow Christ? Are you willing to accept his simple doctrine, or will you continue in the traditions of men?"<br /><br />And in your second: "I hope you'll consider the words of Christ and his doctrine as he has plainly set forth and not give heed to the traditions of men."<br /><br />These are both "gotcha" statements, not unlike, "So have you stopped beating your wife yet?" <br /><br />You are making the implicit assumption that I am giving heed to the traditions of men and not following Christ. I find this perplexing because you are making general statements without any reference to what you perceive I'm doing to follow the traditions of men. <br /><br />Similarly, you imply that I don't accept or follow the doctrine of Christ. I find this perplexing as well, given the lengths to which I've gone to promote and follow it.<br /><br />If you are trying to help me recognize my errors, you will be most helpful by being specific. This post had nothing to do with LDS temple worship, though you've written two lengthy comments about that topic, as if I were speaking in favor of it. I'm afraid I'm just not following your line of thought. <br /><br />It also appears you have not read much of what I've written, or are assuming things about me that are not true. <br /><br />I invite you to be more specific about what traditions of men you perceive me as following, and if possible, stick to the topic of the post. I welcome any helpful input you can offer.<br /><br />Thank you,<br /><br />AdrianAdrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-40841327742688040832015-10-01T16:44:43.011-06:002015-10-01T16:44:43.011-06:00Excellent post Adrian, thank you for sharing these...Excellent post Adrian, thank you for sharing these with us.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10799907046670257005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-57006448185336666112015-10-01T14:20:13.813-06:002015-10-01T14:20:13.813-06:00Well done Adrian. I've wondered why we LDS ar...Well done Adrian. I've wondered why we LDS are so willing to invent additional rules, observances, procedures, and ordinances far beyond what is found in scripture or what Joseph introduced to us. Kind of amusing that this has been a problem for such a long time; but surprising that so few bother to see that some of this stuff has crept into OUR behavior. Anyone still feel funny saying "you," "your," or "yours" in prayer? Or still persist in referring to church leaders by their full, formal, names and titles, such as President Russell M Nelson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles rather than Russ Nelson? Not indicting anyone - just a couple of my unbeliefs I've been addressing.Taylornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-4364173799077458512015-10-01T13:57:21.200-06:002015-10-01T13:57:21.200-06:00Wow, Robert! Great insights! Thank you very much f...Wow, Robert! Great insights! Thank you very much for sharing.Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-88962251610787353782015-10-01T13:45:19.412-06:002015-10-01T13:45:19.412-06:00Adrian, I thought this was an excellent post and ...Adrian, I thought this was an excellent post and an apt adaptation of Nehemia's work as it can be applied to the conditions that exist in modern mormonism. Whether we call it pharisaism or priestcraft, the fruits are pretty much the same. Of course to add a little to your history, the pharisees finally won not by strength in numbers or argument. They eradicated the competition (including the Sons of Zadok or Sadducees). I also appreciate the caveat that not all Jews fall in line with the traditions of orthodoxy in Judaism which finds its roots in the Pharisaic movement. One thing to also note is that Like the root of modern Mormonism the root of the prushim (pharisees) comes from the priests of Ezra- whom God called "the apple of his eye". Amazing how the branches become lofty and overpower the root all the while thinking they are the root. Mormon Yeshivahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16243035209193305892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-90695307540182909492015-10-01T13:15:10.644-06:002015-10-01T13:15:10.644-06:00Adrian,
Thank you for your response. Here's a...Adrian,<br /><br />Thank you for your response. Here's a few other things to consider.<br /><br />When Jesus visited the Nephites he proclaimed:<br /><br />3 Nephi 12:47<br />47 Old things are done away, and all things have become new.<br /><br />When Jesus finished his work the veil in the temple was rent.<br /><br />Matthew 27:51<br />51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;<br /><br />No longer was the law of Moses and associated temple rituals needed. Old things were done away!<br /><br />When it comes to saving ordinances Christ does nothing in secret. He gives his saving ordinances openly to all.<br /><br />Isaiah 48<br />16 ¶Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I HAVE NOT SPOKEN IN SECRET FROM THE BEGINNING; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.<br /><br />Ether 8<br />19. For the Lord worketh NOT IN SECRET COMBINATIONS…<br /><br />2 Nephi 26<br />23. I say unto you that the Lord God worketh not in darkness…<br /><br /><br />When it comes to saving ordinances God requires NO swearing or oaths.<br /><br /><br />Jesus taught:<br /><br />3 Nephi 12<br />34 But verily, verily, I say unto you, SWEAR NOT AT ALL; neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne;<br />35 Nor by the earth, for it is his footstool;<br />36 NEITHER SHALT THOU SWEAR BY THY HEAD, because thou canst not make one hair black or white; (swearing by your head was a common practice in Mormon temples until the 90s)<br />37 But let your communication be Yea, yea; Nay, nay; for whatsoever cometh of more than these is evil.<br /><br />Is swearing oaths not part of Mormon temple rituals? Yes it is. Is it not done in secret? Yes it is. Who is the author of secret oaths and covenants?<br /><br />Helaman 6<br />26 Now behold, those SECRET OATHS AND COVENANTS did not come forth unto Gadianton from the records which were delivered unto Helaman; but behold, they were put into the heart of Gadianton by that same being who did entice our first parents to partake of the forbidden fruit—<br /><br />If you consider the ordinance of baptism, you’ll recognize that you do not swear or make an oath. When Jesus came to the Nephites he taught them how to correctly do baptisms. Here are the requirements he set forth.<br /><br />3 Nephi 11<br />23 Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words, and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them—Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them.<br /><br />“whoso repenteth” and “desireth to be baptized” are the only requirements.<br /><br />No swearing, no oaths and no covenant is made. <br /><br />I hope you'll consider the words of Christ and his doctrine as he has plainly set forth and not give heed to the traditions of men.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06244824015861541082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-51948488293981965522015-10-01T12:26:59.391-06:002015-10-01T12:26:59.391-06:00Thanks for this post, Adrian.
D&C 82:10
I, t...Thanks for this post, Adrian. <br /><br />D&C 82:10<br />I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.<br /><br />Why do we keep expecting the Lord to reward us for obedience to commandments that did not originate with Him? He does not have to honor any additional laws that are added by men. I feel bad that we keep promising members, and especially youth, that they will receive great blessings for living dress standards created by men, or for following the precepts of men, but the Lord is not bound to honor any of those promises. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-64421769121705511312015-10-01T12:01:21.834-06:002015-10-01T12:01:21.834-06:00Adrian, thank you for this post. As of late the Lo...Adrian, thank you for this post. As of late the Lord seems to be focussed on getting into my head and eventually my heart that every wicked thing I notice may lijely have some root in my own self. I have taken notice of the pharisees for a while, but He has spoken againand reminded me that I, I still am a pharisee. I have not completed the purging within myself so I better be very cautious when ascribing condemnation to otherson this subject. I can be vulnerable to the, "I'm not as wicked as they are" syndrome. Thank you for the chance for further introspection. it has already born fruit. Self purification can really be quite a process when the Lord is more than willing to point out your weeknesses. I use to think I wss so righteous because of all my diligent outward observances. Pharisee indeed.Karlynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11862904222201206321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-50714507316184152382015-10-01T11:01:55.990-06:002015-10-01T11:01:55.990-06:00What an excellent post! In so many ways we are lat...What an excellent post! In so many ways we are latter-day pharisees. I think our self-made rules lead to unrighteous pride in how well one keeps them. And pride is one of the huge things that keeps us separated from God. It also keeps us from having charity toward others because we judge them.<br /><br />The focus is so much on keeping the self-made letter of the law, we start to think the letter of the law can save us. We forget that only Christ can save us. We must look to Him and no other, even if that other is a rule or set of rules, or an institution. He should be our focus.<br /><br />--DianeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-56188053035094069952015-10-01T10:42:03.631-06:002015-10-01T10:42:03.631-06:00Adam, thank you for the reminder. Certainly, the w...Adam, thank you for the reminder. Certainly, the way we understand and perform temple work today is indeed not of God. <br /><br />Keep in mind, though, that all the ordinances in the LDS church are merely imitations or rehearsals, designed to point to the real thing. Of course, they're not actually the real thing.<br /><br />For example, the endowment is designed to symbolically portray the walk back into the presence of God through the veil. Of course, it's not the actual walk into God's presence. But it is designed to teach us about the real thing and instill the desire to undertake the journey. <br /><br />Christ did the real thing with the Nephites at the temple in Bountiful. He opened the fiery corridor and took people into the presence of God. This is the real endowment. All the symbols point to this.<br /><br />A discussion of it all is far too lengthy to lay out here. But Christ's actions and teachings at the temple in Bountiful are very enlightening for those with eyes to see.<br /><br />I agree, all our genealogy and work for the dead does nothing for them or for us until and unless we make a connection to the fathers first. If we don't have a covenant, we have nothing to offer our dead, though we may go through the motions. <br /><br />You ask if I'm willing to follow Christ. My answer remains yes. I accept, teach, and obey the Doctrine of Christ. I'm doing all I can to shed the traditions of men and encourage others to do so as well. Thanks for asking.Adrian Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173995703995901609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-91142915849547456992015-10-01T10:37:12.315-06:002015-10-01T10:37:12.315-06:00Yes this can absolutely be applied to temple garme...Yes this can absolutely be applied to temple garments, and any dress code to be honest. The one thing the Book of Mormon repeatedly warns against is wearing expensive clothing.Bennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-43055571301183004602015-10-01T10:22:33.373-06:002015-10-01T10:22:33.373-06:00"God commanded that nothing be added to His l..."God commanded that nothing be added to His law (Deut 4:2, 12:32.) Jesus knew this and pointed out the Pharisees’ hypocrisy. Remember, the Pharisees observed all sorts of man-made, non-scriptural laws about what to eat and drink, how to dress, how to prepare food, how to observe the sabbath, how to swear oaths, how to put on shoes, and a thousand other bits of minutiae."<br /><br />Yes, and nothing in Mormon temples is of God. Christ spelled out his doctrine to the Nephites and made it clear that anything more than belief in Christ, repentance, baptism and the receiving the Holy Ghost was NOT of him and "cometh of evil."<br /><br />Jesus never taught the Nephites of genealogy, work for the dead, temple sealings or any temple ordinance. <br /><br />Adrian, are you willing to follow Christ? Are you willing to accept his simple doctrine, or will you continue in the traditions of men?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06244824015861541082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-3139419188187359212015-10-01T10:02:19.000-06:002015-10-01T10:02:19.000-06:00Great quote!
--DianeGreat quote!<br /><br />--DianeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-81357039421096627452015-10-01T09:18:42.560-06:002015-10-01T09:18:42.560-06:00Thank you. Very helpful.Thank you. Very helpful.Donald Dannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13097095599475727149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8665085267750808287.post-21057643994066378832015-10-01T08:34:58.142-06:002015-10-01T08:34:58.142-06:00Very clever, Adrian. Clever and, unfortunately, t...Very clever, Adrian. Clever and, unfortunately, true.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com